jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Emotional Support => Topic started by: ajordan23 on January 14, 2015, 08:40:35 PM
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:(
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Do you have slight feelings in your lower lip or completely numb? even i am going through sort of same issue
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This is nigthmare. I'm afraid about this when it comes to any surgical procedure on face
However I have qestions in relation to your big issue.
I wonder how much price and opinion influence the outcome
Has your surgeon got very good opinions ? did you make research about this before surgery ?
Is he one of the most expensive or cheaper ?
I know that there is no 100% guarantee anywhere, but I wonder if these features can give you kinda some answer of what outcome can be (probability)
or is it just russian roulette
Now, do you regret you underwent surgery ?
I know that such questions might be painful for you... so i'm little confused to ask you that, but I asked and I wonder what you are gonna answer
PS I have to add . if after half of a year you still have completely numb areas and some muscles don't work, then some nerves were severed. Perhaps the nerve should be reconstructed especially crucial motor ones (it is possible, but I do not know if usable after 6 months. When it comes to the nerves, time of intervention is very important). If a nerve is not severed than some sensation / function returns after 3 months. Most of it after 6 months...
PS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallerian_degeneration
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Firstly ajordan, I'm so very sorry you've had this experience :'( What a horrendous time you must be having.
My understanding is that it's best to attempt to repair damaged nerves within the first 12 months (why, I don't know - but that's what a girl on this board was told re. mental nerve damage). If you haven't yet done so, it would be worth emailing other nerve specialists and getting second, third, fourth opinions. Even though you say went to a specialist in that field, the surgery hasn't worked out - so you may as well get as many other opinions as possible now. You have nothing to lose. I assume you have all your medical notes to hand?
At present, your priority must be to address the damaged nerve - I am sure the gummy smile/bite issues can be corrected in due course. However, seeing Dr. Gunson should shed some light on the issue.
You may want to investigate the use of concentrated stem cells (NOT fat grafting) for nerve regeneration. Currently, this method is considered to be experimental - they do it in Europe, however. I know of someone who's had 9 rhinoplasties and severe nasal damage - they are going to Italy (Dr. Raffaini's PS partner) to have these injections.
I know it's a long shot, but hopefully that will give you some comfort. It's worth investigating, even if you don't end up doing anything.
Of course, there are cosmetic options (face lifting, implants, botox etc.) to improve facial symmetry after facial paralysis but understandably you must want to tackle the cause of the problem and quite rightly so.
May I ask which nerve was injured? Perhaps the pain has something to do with the trigeminal nerve? It looks like the marginal mandibular nerve branch on that side was affected.
As for your jaw surgeon - I would get all your medical files and hire an attorney (don't mention this to any doctor you're consulting with, though). It's incredible that he's acting like everything's OK when it clearly is not. Sadly, some doctors think they are 'God' and will lie in the face of obvious problems in order to save their own skin. He probably knows you'll be filing suit. Personally, I hope you sue the s**t out of him for his blatantly negligent surgery - sadly, you'll probably find you're not the only one in the queue.
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Thank you for reply. Yes I got many consultations and still not sure. The biggest problem is too see examples of their work....mostly , only talking bla bla bla.. I need malar bone osteotmy, generally not popular procedure (unfortunately)
As for my motor nerve, I was seen my a facial nerve surgeon in Los Angeles, and that nerve is intact. We are hoping that the nerve regenerates and I get muscle movement back.
Hmmm.. this is almost impossible to severe this nerve (main branch) during bimax surgery (IMO)
They checked your main nerve...but have they checked if there is no problem at the place of connection nerve - muscle. just near muscles ? The very endings of nerve branches which connect to the muscle. Is it possible to check this ? Moreover, the nerve may be intact in the meaning it is not cut, perhaps it was stretched too much. ?
How they checked ? typical nerve conduction test ? Hi-Res MRI ? all of them should be performed IMO
If I were you, I would take at least laser therapy and / or Electrical nerve stimulation (but in proper "doses") as soon as possible (but make sure they know about it, for example only low doses may boost regeneration, too high may block - so called overstimulation for electrical and other issues (noone know) for laser). Take also B-vitamins, but do not overdose. I think even, that laser is more safe, electrical is mailny to larger nerves in limbs. Take consultation. There are small evidence that these 3 things can somehow increase nerve regeneration. DO MASSAGES. I'm not gonna say you everything will be good (maybe). It is very uncertain. Honestly, every next month without changes your chance decreases.
You have now to do as much as you can. Very little time left. I'm telling you this for your own good. Take all possibilities, ask the most silly question you can to the doctors, everything. Make all possible test.... Be little snippy
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Oops I did not notice your previous post. You already do some of the things. That's good, but laser might be even better than acupuncture. Just make a consultation about this and eventually add to your list
Good to know if a nerve can be swollen due to stretching. Perhaps it is good to get some long acting cortisteroid injection post operative if it's safe and if there is completely lack of nerve function. It's information just in case for others to consider. I hope it won't be necessary
I think if someone wake up with paralised face and does not notice any minor changes after swollen is gone, then just should take consultation with neurosurgeons. neurology, etc as fast as possible and be in touch with them. Do not trust maxfac surgeons too much about the nerves issues.
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That is why I am shocked my facial nerve has become damaged and I am paralyzed in my lip, chin, and neck muscles.
Do you also have any issues with swallowing, or using your tongue?
I wish you the best of luck man!!! :)
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I know of someone who's had 9 rhinoplasties and severe nasal damage - they are going to Italy (Dr. Raffaini's PS partner) to have these injections.
Now how the hell did that happen? And why did the surgeons keep taking their money?
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So sorry, ajordan23.
This advice is equivalent to suggesting you put a band-aid on a hemorrhaging limb, but I would try high doses of Vitamin C for a few months. It can't hurt. That suggestion isn't totally random; Vitamin C can be helpful for nerve problems post-surgery (or post-injury), but all the studies I can think of are for RSD/CRPS. Obviously, not the same, but I would still try it.
I hope you eventually feel better :)
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hey ajordan, the nerve that causes lip paralysis, where exactly is it located? behind the ramus? Also has it gotten better for you?
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Oh I see, thanks for the reply.
Maybe this could help you but look into ozone therapy possibly. Maybe the added oxygen could promote healing. I hope things get better for you!
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No I haven't but I found this youtube video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gLyDsmndrk
Its worth trying imo, you most likely would have to buy the actual machine, unless you can find someone who does it. I'e heard a lot of good things about ozone therapy. There also stem cell therapy, if you can afford it. Thailand and Germany have some of the worlds best stem cell clinics.
Edit: Also I'd contact http://www.dragonherbs.com/ and see if they have anything that could help regenerate nerves.
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So sorry I didn't pick up on what I said earlier about stem cell nerve regeneration.
I checked the name of the doctor - Carlo Tremolada. There's also a doctor in Greece who does it - Dr Sterodimas, who trained under Pitanguay. I'm not sure whether either do it for nerve regeneration; mainly tissue damage I'd imagine. However, he (or other docs) should be able to point you in the right direction if they're already involved in stem cell research anyway.
They do it in a way that isn't done in the US (more experimental/radical). I would definitely look into them further. I believe Tremolada works with Raffaini.
How are things looking now, BTW? I hope there's been some improvement.
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the problem is when nerve fiber die, the whole structure of single fiber (in the whole nerve there are houndreds and thousands of fibers) is removed from the body, how steam cell would know there should be nerve fiber ?
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well stem cells just heal the body in general, don't quote me, but they're either played through IV or local injections. Someone they're able to direct where the stem cells can travel.
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Some points to add:
- The best surgeons in the world have cases like these too. It could be negligence, hard to know, but it's also one of the inherent risks of surgery. It's crap like this that makes me repeat over and over: WHEN IT COMES TO SURGERY, LESS IS BETTER. I don't want to pick on any particular surgeons here, just know that I've done enough research to know that none are immune and, believe it not, I know of much worse outcomes than this.
- Knowing this and what your problem is, it's probably worth pointing out that your problem is probably fixable in your lifetime, if it won't resolve itself. It's easily accessible and a straight forward problem. If you can find someone to reliably fix it today then great, go for it! Otherwise, your best bet is to wait until such a solution appears. It may be a decade or more. Every subsequent surgery you do in attempt to fix it substantially reduces the odds that a future fix will work so make smart bets here. Experimental procedures are just doubling down on your problems. This is the main reason doctors don't like to take multiple surgery patients, they know they can't fix them! Patience is your friend now. Keep researching and researching and researching and don't be afraid to let your doctors know this is your position.
- IVRO's aren't favored because they aren't as stable as I recall.
- Your surgeon is indeed being a total jackass. This is one of the traits to evaluate when picking a surgeon, how will he treat me if I get a bad outcome. The well regarded surgeons excel in this respect, they admit their mistakes and know who to refer you to and when without hesitation. The bad guys dump you and move on to the next patient.
- Personally, I'd handle your outcome very, very badly. Secretly, I hope my surgeon won't wake me up if he isn't confident I'll come out at least 90%. Sadly, that's not an opinion you can express in this country. I still like the odds, just not some of the outcomes.
- Your best bets for coping are the same as they are for any other disability or chronic pain. See a therapist for sure. Meditation, religion, exercise, support groups, distraction, etc. You're in CA, heck visit some prostitutes in LV even, whatever it takes that's legal to make you feel like a normal human being (or cuddle services for something more local). Physical human contact is critical! There many, many people out there with problems like you. People are good at hiding it but roughly speaking, about 20% of people around you are like that but it affects their lives in varied ways.
- Orthodontists don't know who good surgeons are. A little late, I know. And their "favorites" are often not chosen by quality but proximity, friendships, and business relationships. Plus, they're just as narcissistic as the surgeons themselves. That's how they get business, patients want to feel comfortable with the people they've chosen. I've interviewed enough of them to know, most don't even know half of what we know about jaw surgery. How can they judge a surgeon then? The only real evaluation you get is from another surgeon observing one in the operating room, which very few get to do. After that, you can judge by personality, publications, and crude stats about the patients you see. Well, most came back without problems (that patients would even report to the ortho) and their bites looked good.
- I like the Paleo diet but read the books, Perfect Health Diet in particular. Your body needs optimal conditions to conquer this thing. You might give intermittent fasting a shot, supposed to be good for nerve regeneration.
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ajordan23: how your recovery. Any improvement ?
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what will give you redo surgery ?