jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: mirepjanic15 on April 20, 2015, 01:29:35 PM
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I had a visit with a very good myofunctional therapist.
The benefits you may achieve from tongue repositioning are immense.
I'm talking of health benefits...if you're past the age of 13/14 the aesthetic benefits of this therapy will be 0.
But it is key for anyone here to go to a good myofunctional therapist and restore a good tongue posture and function.
What is your take on this?
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Well, good advice. I think that if you have good airways now, correct oral posture will probably prevent breathing/sleeping problems in the future.
But when I was a kid I kept the tongue against my incisors as well which is a bit of a disaster, I believe that is what caused my messed up teeth positions(narrow arches, overerupted incisors & canines etc.) and it's known as tongue thrusting.
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Also check out this article backed up with sources. It talks about nose breathing benefits vs mouth breathing.
http://www.breathing.com/articles/nose-breathing.htm
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the bold part is what makes this thing instantly disinteresting for most of us. However, there is Mike Mew ideology crew, who claim that face can be changed this way also in adult.
i mean he has proven non surgical palate expansion in adults is possible with the right technique and he has recently started offering this http://www.orthotropics.co.uk/face-pulling-orthotropics/ idk how much results would one see but in one of his lectures he talks about a girl he improved (with pictures) from the age of 14 (pubertal growth is done for the most part as a girl at this point) and how a dr.Mitani in japan was getting results in adults using 18 hour periods of face pulling with a device (different than the s**t over at breakingthematrix). Im skeptical like anybody else but im willing to give this a shot if not just for the palatal expansion but also because apparently when a piece of plastic was sutured to the roof of the mouth of ADULT monkeys in a published experiment the maxilla dropped and receded at the same race at growing monkeys.
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Facial changes CAN happen in adults but the changes wont be as big of a difference in adults and the changes will take a long time. MYO therapy is so important if you're getting jaw surgery. If you don't fix your myofunctional disorder, there's a bigger chance of relapse. No studies to prove this, just common sense.
About palatal expansion ,here a link of dental professional talking about expansion in adults: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/Slow-expansion-in-adults-does-4289021.S.113996449
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCNqbvOALZI
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My professionals don't realize that tongue thrusting can't always be fixed by behavioral therapy. It's a natural response to sleep apnea. Parafunctional in other words and should diseappear with jaw surgery.
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What about when someone has a very narrow lower "palate". Don't know if that's the proper name for it. Is there the chance to expand that?
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My professionals don't realize that tongue thrusting can't always be fixed by behavioral therapy. It's a natural response to sleep apnea. Parafunctional in other words and should diseappear with jaw surgery.
this is utter bulls**t. please do not spread this false message.
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@molestrip. I know people who have recessed upper and lower jaws with zero bimaxillary protrusion.
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Does proper tongue posture also affect the chance of relapse after surgery?
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Yeah, I've been practicing nose breathing and keeping my tongue stuck to the palate for that exact reason.
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QCNqbvOALZI
This is so painful to see. Had I known I would not have lost 4 bicuspids due to orthodontic treatment. What is irreversible now is that the lower arch has been made smaller, and to expand that is now not possible (it is technically but through a very invasive surgery that would damage the teeth and gums beyond repair) and since the lower is small, the upper, even if expanded would not fit. I swear these orthos should be shot.
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What is the invasive surgery ? What about sagittal expansion of the upper, just moving the front teeth out,, like in my case if my front 6 lined up with each other, there would be a lot of space behind, and do BSSO on lower?
well breaking the lower jaw, and placing an expander between your bottom two teeth --your chin by the way is completely severed (beneath the skin) you probably lose feeling as well as kill the roots of several of the bottom teeth. It can be done. But trust me, I wouldn't recommend it.
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@ jawbone, people might not agree with me, but i believe its also possible to expand the lower jaw naturally. Problem is, i'll take 3-5 years, easily. The human body is always adapting to it's environment, i dont see why the body wouldnt create new bone to help expand the lower jaw. But being realistic, you probably wont get crazy movements.
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well breaking the lower jaw, and placing an expander between your bottom two teeth --your chin by the way is completely severed (beneath the skin) you probably lose feeling as well as kill the roots of several of the bottom teeth. It can be done. But trust me, I wouldn't recommend it.
isn't this why imdo was developed? even as a child the lower arch is hard to expand so that guy in Australia started using imdo.
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isn't this why imdo was developed? even as a child the lower arch is hard to expand so that guy in Australia started using imdo.
Imdo does linear not lateral or width transverse movements. And as a child even if you have transverse distraction your soft tissue can bounce back. Seriously I've read a lot on this seen the stuff in textbooks. People regularly lose tons of bottom teeth and sensory feeling if this procedure is done. They only do it for the most f**ked up tragic cases. Like deformities.
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@Lazlo It can be reversed. I think I recall reading that Dr Hang works with Dr Wolford to reopen those extraction spaces and then fills them with implants. It seems utterly crazy to me too but I know people who've had them done and are fine even in old age with it. Life sometimes has s**tty choices. My kids have narrow arches and their dentist is already warning us they may need extractions. I'll certainly fly them around the country to everyone possible before I let that happen but there's limits to what can be fixed and how. Maybe the orthodontist can just hide an extra tooth behind the rest or something lol, by the time they're adults someone can fix it surgically.
I plan on instructing my surgeon that extractions aren't an option. I'd rather be on CPAP for the rest of my life, adjust the plan as necessary. That or start learning to accept that I may be chimp faced early.
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@Lazlo It can be reversed. I think I recall reading that Dr Hang works with Dr Wolford to reopen those extraction spaces and then fills them with implants. It seems utterly crazy to me too but I know people who've had them done and are fine even in old age with it. Life sometimes has s**tty choices. My kids have narrow arches and their dentist is already warning us they may need extractions. I'll certainly fly them around the country to everyone possible before I let that happen but there's limits to what can be fixed and how. Maybe the orthodontist can just hide an extra tooth behind the rest or something lol, by the time they're adults someone can fix it surgically.
I plan on instructing my surgeon that extractions aren't an option. I'd rather be on CPAP for the rest of my life, adjust the plan as necessary. That or start learning to accept that I may be chimp faced early.
Listen you must be going to the most retarded idiot orthos and surgeons in the f**kign world.
IF kids have narrow arches and crowding they can be expanded with a f**kING EXPANDER at that age and it will widen the skeletal arch so the teeth can fit (unless they'r really excessively small as in deformed, then well there is indeed IMDO or distraction and yes by all means have that done). But even for adults the arch can be expanded through SARPE (surgically assisted rapid palatal expansion) yeah it requires a minor opertion to put the device in and friggin get it removed after a couple of months, yes it's a b*tch, but hey you can keep all your teeth and no problem. This is all friggin CHILDS PLAY as far ortho and surgry work. SO you need to interview like a dozen more orthos, unless your living in some butf**k hick hole full of country bumpkins who don't know what they're doing. in that case move to the city.
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What bothers me about my previous ortho is that there was never a discussion about options. Elastics and camouflage therapy was the only option presented. Nothing was mentioned in terms of side effects or long-term complications of excessive tooth shifting. Normally in the medical field one would say there is option A, option B (each presented with all benefits and risks), or the option to do nothing. What ever happened to informed consent in this field?
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Problem with extractions is that it makes an already narrow jaw even more narrow. 6mm is a lot of space. Also it gives less room for the tounge so usually the tongue adopts a low posture causing further recession over the next 5,10,20 years.
Molestrip just look into orthotropics. Sure ppl talk s**t since there's no scientific backing but look at what regular Orthos do. They pull teeth because they're extra or because the jaw is too small and doesn't need them? That's some sound logic.
Regular orthodontist are legit retarded. They just follow a book. Ok this person has this we do this. The problem lies in the face not the jaw.
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What bothers me about my previous ortho is that there was never a discussion about options. Elastics and camouflage therapy was the only option presented. Nothing was mentioned in terms of side effects or long-term complications of excessive tooth shifting. Normally in the medical field one would say there is option A, option B (each presented with all benefits and risks), or the option to do nothing. What ever happened to informed consent in this field?
I've found this so often with orthos. One of the reasons is that to make tons of money and buy ferrari's (my ortho has his office strewn with model ferraris) they need to do a high volume of patients. Get buts in and out of seats fast. So they'r not thinking about your case except for the few minutes they're adjusting your looking at your wires. Second, it is common in the medical field --in fact there was a study done about this in the book FREAKANOMICS in which they found that if a doctor was knew two possible options and a third was presented that was better it was too much strain on their thinking to consider the third and they would by default go just with what they knew.
Third, ortho work is almost always terrible for your teeth. But it's sort of all not advertised to patients. I've read medical papers by orthos who write that a patient should be told, two years of braces will irrevocably damage your enamel (truth). Dark spaces and such are almost common with many, especially if done past adolescence. And they assume patients are retards who don't know the consequences so why tell them and worse they don't care. trust me, even today i asked my ortho about my tongue feeling so pressured and caught and he flat out said: "We don't consider the tongue, we're just looking at the alignment of the front teeth" MOTHERf**kER --I mean is this entire field retarded? I'm wondering if all this s**t is in some fine print they make you sign at the beginning of your treatment. I don't even remember if I signed something.
Also, once you've had the brackets attached, you're kind of in a prison. You've paid 2 grand or 3 grand for the initial hardware, now what the f**k are you gonna do, have it taken off and go to another ortho and start again? You know how people hate lawyers? NO -Dentists but especially orthos are f**king criminals. It's a criminal field and a criminal profession. Yes, you need it. But finding a good, smart, advanced actually caring one. Well that's one in a hundred or even thousand. It all starts with your ortho work so choose wisely. And for f**k's sake do ALL your research, ask tons of questions before you start treatment. TONS. If the dude get's irritated, brushes things off, doesn't answer like a f**king expert explaining something to a student. Then move on --it'll only get much much worse. And i'm not even exaggerating.
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Problem with extractions is that it makes an already narrow jaw even more narrow. 6mm is a lot of space. Also it gives less room for the tounge so usually the tongue adopts a low posture causing further recession over the next 5,10,20 years.
Molestrip just look into orthotropics. Sure ppl talk s**t since there's no scientific backing but look at what regular Orthos do. They pull teeth because they're extra or because the jaw is too small and doesn't need them? That's some sound logic.
Regular orthodontist are legit retarded. They just follow a book. Ok this person has this we do this. The problem lies in the face not the jaw.
truth. Also, right now is a turning point. Mike Mew is a hundred percent correct about evertying. They know skeletal widening without surgery or even sarpe is possible. Problem is, no payoff for them. It takes much longer so they end up losing money when they can turn patients faster with s**tty extractions. Extractions is a f**king mutilation of your teeth, gums and face. It's a horror story. And I'm living it.
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This is so painful to see. Had I known I would not have lost 4 bicuspids due to orthodontic treatment. What is irreversible now is that the lower arch has been made smaller, and to expand that is now not possible (it is technically but through a very invasive surgery that would damage the teeth and gums beyond repair) and since the lower is small, the upper, even if expanded would not fit. I swear these orthos should be shot.
Yep, I agree they should! I had a small lower jaw when I was young, so what did the ortho do, extract 4 bicuspids right when I was going through puberty and put headgear on me preventing my maxilla from growing forward, then I got my wisdom teeth extracted after that. I can improve my profile with jaw surgery, but I'll still be stuck with this narrow arch and 24 teeth.
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@alue - ya that sucks. Honestly, I feel like ortho's should go to jail for doing stuff like this. They should fully tell you that extractions and head gear ruins faces. Because of these things people give different lives.
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Not only that, but there is no recourse, your parents sign your rights away and you can't even sue. Statute of limitations shouldn't be the same when the victims are children.
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Is a narrow arch such a big deal then?
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@ baldguy - obviosuly it is. Narrow arch= narrow nasal airways, less room for tongue. I think posterior arch with is more important then anterior width.
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Now that I think of it, I wonder of there is a correlation between narrow arches and forward head posture. I really do believe there is one for recessed jaws narrowing the airway.
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This is so painful to see. Had I known I would not have lost 4 bicuspids due to orthodontic treatment. What is irreversible now is that the lower arch has been made smaller, and to expand that is now not possible (it is technically but through a very invasive surgery that would damage the teeth and gums beyond repair) and since the lower is small, the upper, even if expanded would not fit. I swear these orthos should be shot.
On allexperts dot com I asked Dr Jamali about getting SARPE as an adult when you have a narrow lower arch. He told me that they can some widen the maxilla and accommodate the bottom arch somehow.