jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Functional Surgery Questions => Topic started by: Lazlo on June 03, 2015, 10:22:50 PM
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For the love of god will someone post the actual before and afters of a ZSO!!!
Reason being, I want to see precisely how it affects the face. I mean WITHOUT any infraorbital movements.
It would be better to see how it looks alongside a lefort-1.
Th reason I'm asking is that certain movements just cause the face to look fat and concave without providing that S-curve.
So many of you research all the papers so someone should post one of the medical papers on the procedure that contains visual examples.
The following is what I WANT OT AVOID!!! This result is BAD and makes the face to round and concave.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The above guy looked a million times better BEFORE. Is that a "high lefort"? Or a zygomatic osteotomy? ZSO? This is why we NEED pictures of the procedures for f**k'S SAKE!!!!!!!
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You mean convex?
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You mean convex?
Yeah sorry convex. High lefort 1 and maybe zygomatic osteotomy (especially if done together) just seem to make face convex and rounded. there is no S curve. Let's see some proof this operation is even available and worth doing!!
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sorry I mean covex.
I want to see pictures of the ZSO before and after. DO ANY EXIST? ANd I WANT TO KNOW IF IT WAS DONE WITH A LEFORT. AND WHAT KIND.
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there is a lot in Mommaerts publication
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OK, I won't show you pictures but let me shed some light here. The guy you posted did not have any type of zygomatic osteotomy but rather implants which are very likely submalar or combined, adding volume to his his mid-face. We discussed him ages ago on this board and someone (or maybe it was me) tracked the information about him on a Brazilian web site.
I've seen a large number of before and afters of zygomatic osteotomies. A really large number. Where? In doctors' offices. You will not find any online.
Besides, looking at pictures is interesting and helpful, but in the end meaningless. I've seen brilliant and tragic results. The result will depend on the technique of your surgeon, the aesthetic criterion (or a lack of it) and perhaps more than anything your starting position and what you already have (soft tissue thickness and distribution is crucial in how all will look like in the end and that's all genetically indicated).
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The above guy looked a million times better BEFORE. Is that a "high lefort"? Or a zygomatic osteotomy? ZSO? This is why we NEED pictures of the procedures for f**k'S SAKE!!!!!!!
No he didn't, he looks like the homeless guy you see on the news who's wanted for raping women.
Afterwards his face was feminised by the rhino and his lips filling out, but he looks a lot more normal in my opinion. Here is a really quick and dirty morph I made of the after using his previous hair, skin tone, and slightly squinted eyes.
(http://i.imgur.com/KU8zdMQ.png)
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there is a lot in Mommaerts publication
post the picture or link to the publication please.
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OK, I won't show you pictures but let me shed some light here. The guy you posted did not have any type of zygomatic osteotomy but rather implants which are very likely submalar or combined, adding volume to his his mid-face. We discussed him ages ago on this board and someone (or maybe it was me) tracked the information about him on a Brazilian web site.
I've seen a large number of before and afters of zygomatic osteotomies. A really large number. Where? In doctors' offices. You will not find any online.
Besides, looking at pictures is interesting and helpful, but in the end meaningless. I've seen brilliant and tragic results. The result will depend on the technique of your surgeon, the aesthetic criterion (or a lack of it) and perhaps more than anything your starting position and what you already have (soft tissue thickness and distribution is crucial in how all will look like in the end and that's all genetically indicated).
Falcao, thanks for you comments. You had the procedure so you can certainly shed some light on this.
The reason I want pics is I want to show them to Dr. Sinn with whom I'll be having surgery. I know he will be doing high lefort CCW as well as infraorbital rim advancement, but I want my cheekbones to really pop so I don't know if he will touch the zygoma malar whatever that will cause the high cheekbone look which I want (think Christian Bale or Richard Gere).
My skin thickness if average to thick (if I have thick skin is that good or bad?). My face tends to sage under my cheekbones. I don't know what to do or specify to him so I was hoping for a pic to show him!!!
Could you pm me your before and afters please? I promise to keep it entirely confidential! : )
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Lazlo: why you can't ask Dr Sinn about such pictures ? + mail addresses to some of his patients ?
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Yeah sorry concave.
^LOL wtf
I want the S CURVE too. If I get Le fort 1 I'm going to have to get a "low" le fort1... :-[
Do people who have had le fort 1 seem to get a more vertical lip line afterwards? His lip line was parallel to the nose line in the before. In the after, it's totally straight down.
I don't think it makes a difference. My lip is more vertical post-op. I don't like it, but it is, what it is.
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I too look softer and more convex after my Le Fort I. I was ugly pre-op, but at least my face had character. Now I'm plain and soft. Anyway, to me LF1 advancement is a great compromise. I think it works best when the face is wide and has strong orbits and cheekbones. That's how you get those great LF1 advancement cases. I only had facial width. My orbits are weak and look "left behind".
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well here's another example of where since we have no pics people are gonna go in and have this ZSO procedure and end up looking like crap and then cause they do they won't share pics.
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Lazlo: there is a lot Mommaert's publications - just type his name in Google
First random: http://www.academia.edu/6713021/1995_The_sandwich_zygomatic_osteotomy_-_technique_indications_and_clinical_results._JCMFS
http://www.facialplastic.theclinics.com/article/S1064-7406%2802%2900012-3/abstract (find free or buy)
http://www.facialmakeover.info/frontend/files/userfiles/files/book1.pdf
http://www.facialmakeover.info/frontend/files/userfiles/files/book2.pdf
https://www.google.pl/search?q=zygomatic+osteotomy+mommaerts&safe=off&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=969&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=QvNxVavwOIbiywOljIHwDw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=zso+mommaerts
+ many others. Mommaerts developed ZSO (if i'm not wrong)
I put some links few months ago.. just find - in Google easier
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No he didn't, he looks like the homeless guy you see on the news who's wanted for raping women.
ROFLMAO!
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No Rico, I'm not satisfied with the pics you posted. Post something better and more current.
Well I guess we're all gonna be guinea pigs. Someone who has had it done post pics.
Falcao is an asshole for not at least sharing a partial picture.
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^PP, does your nose look different?
Yes, smaller from profile, a bit shorter from the front. Perhaps a bit wider from the front with a bit more nostril show. Pre-op it was curving to one side. My surgeon offered to straighten it during surgery, but we both decided to put it off. I just saw a PS about rhinoplasty, and he said that my nose is straight. I guess it was curved because the right side of the maxilla was more recessed than the left pre-op.
Did they shave your anterior nasal spine during the surgery?
I don't know. My tip went up, which is probably a good thing, as it was too droopy pre-op. The downside of a shorter nose from the front, is that the lip *looks* longer (it's the same length, I measured it). And I have a long lip. Pre-braces, pre-surgery I was delusional enough to think my lip was short. It was actually the proclined compensating upper teeth that made my lip curl, and the droopy nose tip helped hide the length.
I had mingy thin upper lip vermillion pre-op. Post-op it came over the bottom and looks fuller. I guess it looks normal now. Maybe the VY plasty helped as well. I don't like the long flat philtrum, however.
Alar cinch?
Yes. Probably the only thing that hurt for the first few weeks, mainly when smiling or laughing. The alar cinch makes the tip rise too much for the first few months. Then as it dissolves over 3 months, the tip comes down.
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(http://i60.tinypic.com/25rmovl.png)
ZSO, unofficially.
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Lazlo.. perhaps I posted some others in past. I do not remember. Now I do not have time to search all webs
Talk to Mommaerts patients. There are here....
I think you demand too much.
Forget about getting a lot of online examples of any procedures on zygomatic bones (no implants)
Surgery is a little gamble. Just do it or forget.....and live
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(http://i60.tinypic.com/25rmovl.png)
ZSO, unofficially.
I mean these results look awesome. But what do you mean "unofficially" and who is the doctor?
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Where'd you find those pics Mark? Made a big difference for her IMO but they're not symmetric. What did they look like 5 years out? I read that long term relapse is a big problem with ZSO. Same problem you have with jaw surgery, muscle wants to be where muscle wants to be. That's actually a reason why distraction osteogenesis isn't preferred I think, I was reading the relapse rates from MGH and it's much bigger than rigid internal fixation. I guess the plates still keep things together after healing.
Did you notice the nose btw? My wife has the same thing. Until this stupid jaw surgery came along, I never noticed it. It sticks out to one side. I would definitely get that fixed were it my nose. Looks like she did in the after.
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I mean these results look awesome. But what do you mean "unofficially" and who is the doctor?
Where'd you find those pics Mark? Made a big difference for her IMO but they're not symmetric. What did they look like 5 years out? I read that long term relapse is a big problem with ZSO. Same problem you have with jaw surgery, muscle wants to be where muscle wants to be. That's actually a reason why distraction osteogenesis isn't preferred I think, I was reading the relapse rates from MGH and it's much bigger than rigid internal fixation. I guess the plates still keep things together after healing.
Did you notice the nose btw? My wife has the same thing. Until this stupid jaw surgery came along, I never noticed it. It sticks out to one side. I would definitely get that fixed were it my nose. Looks like she did in the after.
A 32 years woman with malar deficiency, No orthognathic surgery was performed in this case. The patient desired definition of the cheekbones with zygomatic sandwich osteotomy (ZSO) (left) preoperative view, note the triangular shape of she’s face; (right) 18 month postoperative view.
source: http://www.intechopen.com/books/a-textbook-of-advanced-oral-and-maxillofacial-surgery-volume-2/advanced-adjunct-orthosurgical-esthetic-prodedures
It's work of iranian surgeons, so apparently it's not dr. Z as I initially suspected.
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Where'd you find those pics Mark? Made a big difference for her IMO but they're not symmetric. What did they look like 5 years out? I read that long term relapse is a big problem with ZSO. Same problem you have with jaw surgery, muscle wants to be where muscle wants to be. That's actually a reason why distraction osteogenesis isn't preferred I think, I was reading the relapse rates from MGH and it's much bigger than rigid internal fixation. I guess the plates still keep things together after healing.
Did you notice the nose btw? My wife has the same thing. Until this stupid jaw surgery came along, I never noticed it. It sticks out to one side. I would definitely get that fixed were it my nose. Looks like she did in the after.
Similar operations but I asked Dr Sinn about long-term stability and he told me that it's a very, very stable operation. Honestly, I'd be inclined to agree. You don't have big strong muscles like the masseters pulling on the malars and infraorbital rims so it should be more stable.
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Yeah heard about the relapse issue too today. The zygomatic muscles are very active when smiling (and help with chewing too), so of course there is a lot of force over the zygomatic arch too. Starting to get worried myself now.
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hi can someone explain to me what a S curve is?
I'm also interested.
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Yeah heard about the relapse issue too today. The zygomatic muscles are very active when smiling (and help with chewing too), so of course there is a lot of force over the zygomatic arch too. Starting to get worried myself now.
Heard about from who? If you're just echoing something on a forum it's useless. All doctors have stated it's an extremely stable procedure, and given sound reasons as to why.
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Heard about from who? If you're just echoing something on a forum it's useless. All doctors have stated it's an extremely stable procedure, and given sound reasons as to why.
Zygomas are fairly thin bones and no fixation is used. But then the muscles there are nothing like masseter muscles.
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Zygomas are fairly thin bones and no fixation is used. But then the muscles there are nothing like masseter muscles.
what do you mean no fixations are used!? sinn uses fixation, it was apparent on earl's x-ray!!
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what do you mean no fixations are used!? sinn uses fixation, it was apparent on earl's x-ray!!
His zygomas were simply moved together with the orbital rims and the hardware was used to fixate the rims.
Zo is different - the zygomas are reshaped - cut away and hinged out with some kind of graft put in the gap and left to heal like that.
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This is untrue, as there are screws and plates in my zygoma after my ZSO.
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hi can someone explain to me what a S curve is?
I'm also interested.
Pretty sure it's the contour of the face from three quarters. It's considered attractive and ideal I guess. But plenty of good looking people don't have it so it's not essential.
(https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/hphotos-xap1/t51.2885-15/s320x320/e15/10865214_1566164450289606_1403497097_n.jpg)
(http://www.beauti5me.com/upload/treatments/2830/26-11-2014-04-03-25.png)
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wow these are all mommaerts patients.
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to be honest. Looking TOO MUCH at a surgeon patients in publications gives nothing.
It can give you certainty that a surgeon can do it.. Has done it before..
but remember it's kinda marketing. You see only his the best results. :) not all