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Before/After Photos => Other => Topic started by: ExtractionsRuinFaces on May 23, 2013, 02:52:00 AM
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Can tooth extractions cause unwanted vertical growth?
Mouth breathing?
Lack of vitamins in diet?
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uh tooth extractions is not going to cause vertical growth, not that i know of.
studies of growth are limited. the tongue is responsible for forming the palate early on (like infancy), this continues for several years. anything that disrupts that will cause vertical growth in some direction. that triggers/stimulates jaw growth supposedly. that's why pacifier sucking should be limited because it can create poor oral habits.
doubt mouth breathing influences growth, but mouth breathing often means a tongue thrust which if left untreated will mess up the bite.
vitamins in diet? LOL no that sounds like BS.
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well extraction(s) causes the jaw(s) to shrink thus eliminating adequate tongue space so it's definitely a possibility
a common misconception is that people associate LFS/unwanted vertical growth with a Class II dental skeletal malocclusion but that always isn't the case, you can "be" a Class III and still have unwanted vertical growth of the mid-face
I read an interesting article/journal? by Prof Salmen on all this but I can't seem to find it (and it's in Portuguese)
quirky little trivia: this guy is considered by many to be one of the "best" surgeons in the country and from what I've learned he mastered his craft in Havana, Cuba (through an international fellowship program in the 90s) makes me wonder how much surgery costs there
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Mouth breathing suggests tongue thrust, tongue thrust suggests open bite, open bite suggests skeletal misalignment, skeletal misalignment suggests scoliosis, etc.
Do the math. Jaw surgery is fixing one link in the chain
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Mouth breathing suggests tongue thrust, tongue thrust suggests open bite, open bite suggests skeletal misalignment, skeletal misalignment suggests scoliosis, etc.
Do the math. Jaw surgery is fixing one link in the chain
So do you believe that helps the others?
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So do you believe that helps the others?
The ones that were caused by the jaw issues I would guess.
The things that cause the jaw issues are probably what makes people relapse when they do.
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I think it puts you in the position of solving other issues but they won't solve alone
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well extraction(s) causes the jaw(s) to shrink thus eliminating adequate tongue space so it's definitely a possibility
a common misconception is that people associate LFS/unwanted vertical growth with a Class II dental skeletal malocclusion but that always isn't the case, you can "be" a Class III and still have unwanted vertical growth of the mid-face
I read an interesting article/journal? by Prof Salmen on all this but I can't seem to find it (and it's in Portuguese)
quirky little trivia: this guy is considered by many to be one of the "best" surgeons in the country and from what I've learned he mastered his craft in Havana, Cuba (through an international fellowship program in the 90s) makes me wonder how much surgery costs there
i think focus on the class is a mistake. braces can superficially correct an malocclusion without treating vertical growth of the jaw. and it's not like growth is in a straight line, it is unpredictable when it occurs. how it affects the face depends on so many variables which is why there is no example of "standard" growth problems. makes it incredibly difficult to diagnose.
most surgeons dont want to operate on kids. of the three i saw only one supported jaw surgery before the bones hardened.
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i think focus on the class is a mistake. braces can superficially correct an malocclusion without treating vertical growth of the jaw. and it's not like growth is in a straight line, it is unpredictable when it occurs. how it affects the face depends on so many variables which is why there is no example of "standard" growth problems. makes it incredibly difficult to diagnose.
most surgeons dont want to operate on kids. of the three i saw only one supported jaw surgery before the bones hardened.
Understood
You're right as always sir
soon as you graduate/finish college you should definitely consider becoming a Tony Robbins (of dental care) you would easily put a few hundred quack orthos out of a job while changing people's lifes for the better
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Understood
You're right as always sir
soon as you graduate/finish college you should definitely consider becoming a Tony Robbins (of dental care) you would easily put a few hundred quack orthos out of a job while changing people's lifes for the better
LOL. a lot of what i have posted is synthesis based on limited studies or discussions with surgeons. i am confident though due to personal experience and interacting with so many people with the same condition. when i have confronted other orthos about this, the response i get is "oh, it's just genetic." that's it, they cant respond or provide evidence that disproves what we consider to be a major cause of abnormal growth. the dentists familiar with growth were eager to explain the causes and preventive measures.
it's just gone unchallenged for so long.
even if half what i say is true it is damning.
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uh tooth extractions is not going to cause vertical growth, not that i know of.
studies of growth are limited. the tongue is responsible for forming the palate early on (like infancy), this continues for several years. anything that disrupts that will cause vertical growth in some direction. that triggers/stimulates jaw growth supposedly. that's why pacifier sucking should be limited because it can create poor oral habits.
doubt mouth breathing influences growth, but mouth breathing often means a tongue thrust which if left untreated will mess up the bite.
vitamins in diet? LOL no that sounds like BS.
When people here refer to "vertical growth" do they mean nose length, lack of midface projection and underprojecting orbitals/cheekbones?
I have a rather short midface (nose) although my maxilla is sunken in and I have some discolouration under my eyes. I also have pretty bad asymmetry (really crooked nose, maxilla and mandible are crooked in the same direction of my jaws) might even have asymmetrical eyesockets (I hope to god I dont)
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When people here refer to "vertical growth" do they mean nose length, lack of midface projection and underprojecting orbitals/cheekbones?
I have a rather short midface (nose) although my maxilla is sunken in and I have some discolouration under my eyes. I also have pretty bad asymmetry (really crooked nose, maxilla and mandible are crooked in the same direction of my jaws) might even have asymmetrical eyesockets (I hope to god I dont)
vertical growth shouldnt affect the posture of the nose (crooked or otherwise), that is a totally unique feature. growth isnt going to change the shape of your eye for example, though it will obviously influence how it sits on the face and accentuates other features/whole face.
if you had extractions as an adult, i cant see how any of those things occurred due to extractions. that is severe abnormal growth that began in childhood or earlier, genetic or environmental. or both. i havent seen a front picture of you so no one here can comment. the lack of projecting cheekbones may be due to the fact that they are set low on the face. when the upper jaw grows upwards instead of forward the bones in the upper face connected to the jaw grow downward, around the upper jaw. so your midface elongates, and you appear to have no cheekbones. you do have cheekbones, they are just set very low on top of the upper jaw.
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vertical growth shouldnt affect the posture of the nose (crooked or otherwise), that is a totally unique feature. growth isnt going to change the shape of your eye for example, though it will obviously influence how it sits on the face and accentuates other features/whole face.
if you had extractions as an adult, i cant see how any of those things occurred due to extractions. that is severe abnormal growth that began in childhood or earlier, genetic or environmental. or both. i havent seen a front picture of you so no one here can comment. the lack of projecting cheekbones may be due to the fact that they are set low on the face. when the upper jaw grows upwards instead of forward the bones in the upper face connected to the jaw grow downward, around the upper jaw. so your midface elongates, and you appear to have no cheekbones. you do have cheekbones, they are just set very low on top of the upper jaw.
I had extractions when I was around 13/14 (this is why I worry about unwanted vertical growth). Im 18 now. I always thought my cheekbones were medium height and somewhat projecting. The discolouration under my eyes is worrying though.
And are you sure my asymmetrical nasal bone has nothing to do with it? I had a crossbite on one side of my maxilla which was left untreated as a kid, surely the maxilla positioning in the face can cause the nasal bone and eyesockets to grow in wonky? im not educated on the subject so im guessing here. Sorry if everything im saying is wrong XD
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I had extractions when I was around 13/14 (this is why I worry about unwanted vertical growth). Im 18 now. I always thought my cheekbones were medium height and somewhat projecting. The discolouration under my eyes is worrying though.
And are you sure my asymmetrical nasal bone has nothing to do with it? I had a crossbite on one side of my maxilla which was left untreated as a kid, surely the maxilla positioning in the face can cause the nasal bone and eyesockets to grow in wonky? im not educated on the subject so im guessing here. Sorry if everything im saying is wrong XD
how many teeth were extracted? if you did have vertical/unnatural growth in that area, your cheekbones should be sitting very close - if not directly on top and cemented - to the upper jaw. 13/14 is fairly late in growth and most of your bones have hardened considerably - although you are obviously still growing. they are just way less malleable.
in my case, my cheekbones are stretched and thinned out, not to mention widely uneven. you can actually see them sit super low in an xray, and compare the xray to ones taken during earlier years. in other words, you can observe my bones slowly growing upwards, mm by mm, rather than forward.
assuming your cheekbones didnt grow properly, the discoloration could be the result of an absence of support in your upper/mid face. the area becomes hallow rather than full, so the area absorbs shadows more easily and thus you see discoloration. i have something similar.
i seriously doubt extractions did anything to your nose, or your eye sockets growing in "wonky." but who knows, there arent a huge amount of studies on this (mostly because many doctors don't care) so this is just what ive been told by surgeons and limited studies available online.
now if through some bizarre situation you had teeth extracted at birth, or 5-6, that would be catastrophic. we can be more self-critical, so it could be a lot of the things you are seeing arent necessarily the results of abnormal growth. stress can also mess with your eyes imo
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how many teeth were extracted? if you did have vertical/unnatural growth in that area, your cheekbones should be sitting very close - if not directly on top and cemented - to the upper jaw. 13/14 is fairly late in growth and most of your bones have hardened considerably - although you are obviously still growing. they are just way less malleable.
in my case, my cheekbones are stretched and thinned out, not to mention widely uneven. you can actually see them sit super low in an xray, and compare the xray to ones taken during earlier years. in other words, you can observe my bones slowly growing upwards, mm by mm, rather than forward.
assuming your cheekbones didnt grow properly, the discoloration could be the result of an absence of support in your upper/mid face. the area becomes hallow rather than full, so the area absorbs shadows more easily and thus you see discoloration. i have something similar.
i seriously doubt extractions did anything to your nose, or your eye sockets growing in "wonky." but who knows, there arent a huge amount of studies on this (mostly because many doctors don't care) so this is just what ive been told by surgeons and limited studies available online.
now if through some bizarre situation you had teeth extracted at birth, or 5-6, that would be catastrophic. we can be more self-critical, so it could be a lot of the things you are seeing arent necessarily the results of abnormal growth. stress can also mess with your eyes imo
That sounds absolutely brutal :| fml.
I made a thread about it a while ago, if theres a post history for me on here you can find it. I had 2 upper teeth extracted (biscupids) at either 13 or 14.
I've been feeling around my midface but its hard to tell if my cheekbones are sitting directly above my maxilla. That would surely take away all prominence you couldve had which would suck. I do have central scleral show and some discolouration under my eyes. The dished in midface also.
Will a surgeon be able to go indepth with me about all of this? im really anxious about it. I would absolutely hate to have had vertical growth that was not supposed to happen. Its maddening even thinking about it.
edit: Here is a ceph of my skull from profile. Do you know how to examine/read them?
(http://gyazo.com/e2cb4f775a0b072d581568e4ae8ea8bc.png)
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Will a surgeon be able to go indepth with me about all of this? im really anxious about it. I would absolutely hate to have had vertical growth that was not supposed to happen. Its maddening even thinking about it.
doubtful, these guys have an agenda (money), why try to scare away a potential patient?
a "case folder" (not sure what it's called in the US) basically lists all the standard s**t. I would be surprised if anyone's report has in-depth details about mid-face development
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doubtful, these guys have an agenda (money), why try to scare away a potential patient?
a "case folder" (not sure what it's called in the US) basically lists all the standard s**t. I would be surprised if anyone's report has in-depth details about mid-face development
Not sure if you can read cephs but if you can judging by the ceph of my skull on the previous page would you say I have had the same outcome as you? (cheekbones basically ossified ontop of the maxilla)
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Not sure if you can read cephs but if you can judging by the ceph of my skull on the previous page would you say I have had the same outcome as you? (cheekbones basically ossified ontop of the maxilla)
dunno, cone beam scan would be ideal for this
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So I have no way of knowing if i've been f*ked over by tooth extractions and I dont know if I will further be f*ked over by functional orthodontics..
Great ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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So I have no way of knowing if i've been f*ked over by tooth extractions and I dont know if I will further be f*ked over by functional orthodontics..
Great ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm no sure why your'e worried about excess vertical growth. Your ramus and mandibular body do not seem short, and your mandibular and occlusal planes are low, all of which contributes to a normal to short facial height.
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I'm no sure why your'e worried about excess vertical growth. Your ramus and mandibular body do not seem short, and your mandibular and occlusal planes are low, all of which contributes to a normal to short facial height.
yeah i sort of have to agree with this, your x-ray seems to show a really good bite and soft tissue projection/balance, esp. your lips etc.... I'm uncertain your appearance problems are related to jaw etc. issues.
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So I have no way of knowing if i've been f*ked over by tooth extractions and I dont know if I will further be f*ked over by functional orthodontics..
Great ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
i think you are overrating the effects extractions have on facial growth. i havent heard of a case where extractions have undermined with midface growth or cheekbone development. plus you had them right around when the bones are close to getting hard and are less influenced by the environment.
extractions cannot influence the shape or posture of the nose, or hallowness of the under-eye area.
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I'm no sure why your'e worried about excess vertical growth. Your ramus and mandibular body do not seem short, and your mandibular and occlusal planes are low, all of which contributes to a normal to short facial height.
My profile seems relatively acceptable but if you look closely on my maxilla theres a small gap (was never able to be closed, I had too much room for 2 teeth being taken out, theres also one on the other side of my maxilla) and due to my teeth grinding from an asymmetrical bite I will eventually grind my teeth down so much my lower canine will fit in that gap from grinding.
Yes from profile my bite seems to be within the acceptable range but it is indeed retruded due to the lack of projection from the maxilla and angle of the teeth.. From the front I have alot of soft tissue just laying around my nose-mouth area and it looks pretty nasty when I talk.
As for the dark circles under the eyes im convinced its from lack of support around the eyes (weak orbitals) from down and back growth from the extractions.
The reason I think my nose is also part of it was because it was centred before puberty, no asymmetry. After puberty I have scoliosis, maxilla and mandible asymmetry that ALL deviate in the same direction as my nose. How can that be a coincidence? how did my nose, both jaws and spine deviate in the same direction? I dont believe that can be by chance. A squint nose by itself? sure, genetics. Midline of my teeth off by a few mm? ok fair enough my dad gave me his squint smile. Everything combined? I dont believe it, not for a second. Especially considering I had a crossbite on only ONE side of my mouth when I was younger.
I have been diagnosed with BDD yes but everyone here can agree that my maxilla lacks projection. Everyone here can see my extraction gaps and everyone here can confirm that extractions make you lose facial dimension.
Im focused on fixing myself back to what I originally was, no dished in midface, no recessed jaw or narrow smile. No teeth grinding. No back pain. No posture issues. No gum recession. I do not want things to happen to my face and body that arent natural.
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i think you are overrating the effects extractions have on facial growth. i havent heard of a case where extractions have undermined with midface growth or cheekbone development. plus you had them right around when the bones are close to getting hard and are less influenced by the environment.
extractions cannot influence the shape or posture of the nose, or hallowness of the under-eye area.
From what Pekay said it sounds like it can completely change the projection of several bones. Lowering cheekbones right next to the maxilla? Zygomatic arch bending from change in growth pattern? that sounds horrific. How is that not seriously affecting development?
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From what Pekay said it sounds like it can completely change the projection of several bones. Lowering cheekbones right next to the maxilla? Zygomatic arch bending from change in growth pattern? that sounds horrific. How is that not seriously affecting development?
this is all speculation. maybe extractions are correlated with growth problems but i doubt it would lead to such comprehensive problems, especially when you had them near the end of your most important growth cycle.
if we had a picture we could make a more accurate judgement.
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Im focused on fixing myself back to what I originally was, no dished in midface, no recessed jaw or narrow smile. No teeth grinding. No back pain. No posture issues. No gum recession. I do not want things to happen to my face and body that arent natural.
no jaw surgery is going to affect body posture at all. dished midface, im not sure what that is exactly.
since you are done growing, it will be impossible to know what you originally should be. jaw-wise it might be hard to tell how far you deviated from a natural, healthy status. you might always be unsatisfied in this regard.
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My profile seems relatively acceptable but if you look closely on my maxilla theres a small gap (was never able to be closed, I had too much room for 2 teeth being taken out, theres also one on the other side of my maxilla) and due to my teeth grinding from an asymmetrical bite I will eventually grind my teeth down so much my lower canine will fit in that gap from grinding.
Yes from profile my bite seems to be within the acceptable range but it is indeed retruded due to the lack of projection from the maxilla and angle of the teeth.. From the front I have alot of soft tissue just laying around my nose-mouth area and it looks pretty nasty when I talk.
As for the dark circles under the eyes im convinced its from lack of support around the eyes (weak orbitals) from down and back growth from the extractions.
The reason I think my nose is also part of it was because it was centred before puberty, no asymmetry. After puberty I have scoliosis, maxilla and mandible asymmetry that ALL deviate in the same direction as my nose. How can that be a coincidence? how did my nose, both jaws and spine deviate in the same direction? I dont believe that can be by chance. A squint nose by itself? sure, genetics. Midline of my teeth off by a few mm? ok fair enough my dad gave me his squint smile. Everything combined? I dont believe it, not for a second. Especially considering I had a crossbite on only ONE side of my mouth when I was younger.
I have been diagnosed with BDD yes but everyone here can agree that my maxilla lacks projection. Everyone here can see my extraction gaps and everyone here can confirm that extractions make you lose facial dimension.
Im focused on fixing myself back to what I originally was, no dished in midface, no recessed jaw or narrow smile. No teeth grinding. No back pain. No posture issues. No gum recession. I do not want things to happen to my face and body that arent natural.
No I can appreciate that my friend. The grinding is especially worrisome. Listen you absolutely must consult with a few surgeons and jaw specialists.
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no jaw surgery is going to affect body posture at all. dished midface, im not sure what that is exactly.
since you are done growing, it will be impossible to know what you originally should be. jaw-wise it might be hard to tell how far you deviated from a natural, healthy status. you might always be unsatisfied in this regard.
Well ofcourse thats what one would think. I dont think there has been many studies done on it but if you think about it the positioning of the lower face will have an effect on the neck which leads to the spine. Many people with very retruded lower have compromised airways which leads to forward head posture to correct the airway size. This leads to rounded shoulders, slumped back and poor hips. See the pattern? (words of my dentist not me, sorry again if I sound ignorant to your opinion)
Sorry dished in midface is my way of saying recessed midface. I believe my maxilla, orbitals and cheekbones are all recessed.
Obviously everyones lower third will project differently since people have different nasions/foreheads/noses but surely from the ceph people can estimate how far I am from the norm? I dont think its too far personally. Its enough to have an effect on my soft tissue and make me have bad posture.
No I can appreciate that my friend. The grinding is especially worrisome. Listen you absolutely must consult with a few surgeons and jaw specialists.
The A.L.F appliance that I am using to correct my issues at the moment will apparently fix any functional issues I have. I just want to be returned to what I was pre extractions. I think I'll consult with a surgeon as soon as possible.
By the way what do people mean when they say my mandibular and occlusal planes are low? is this good?
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Well ofcourse thats what one would think. I dont think there has been many studies done on it but if you think about it the positioning of the lower face will have an effect on the neck which leads to the spine. Many people with very retruded lower have compromised airways which leads to forward head posture to correct the airway size. This leads to rounded shoulders, slumped back and poor hips. See the pattern? (words of my dentist not me, sorry again if I sound ignorant to your opinion)
Sorry dished in midface is my way of saying recessed midface. I believe my maxilla, orbitals and cheekbones are all recessed.
Obviously everyones lower third will project differently since people have different nasions/foreheads/noses but surely from the ceph people can estimate how far I am from the norm? I dont think its too far personally. Its enough to have an effect on my soft tissue and make me have bad posture.
The A.L.F appliance that I am using to correct my issues at the moment will apparently fix any functional issues I have. I just want to be returned to what I was pre extractions. I think I'll consult with a surgeon as soon as possible.
positioning of the lower face? your neck and body posture is independent of your facial development. jaw surgery isnt going to do squat for your neck posture, that needs to be dealt with separately - strength training, better habits, etc. and that might not even work depending on how severe your posture is.
relationship between compromised airways and forward head posture is weak imo, maybe there is a correlation but definitely not a direct cause. in any case, improving your jaw isnt going to do anything for your hips, knees, whatever. that is separate now even if there is some evidence linking that....to your extractions.
more likely, you probably slouched, look down at the floor due to low confidence growing up OR spending too much time sitting around on the computer. or both. more likely than extractions bro.
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positioning of the lower face? your neck and body posture is independent of your facial development. jaw surgery isnt going to do squat for your neck posture, that needs to be dealt with separately - strength training, better habits, etc. and that might not even work depending on how severe your posture is.
relationship between compromised airways and forward head posture is weak imo, maybe there is a correlation but definitely not a direct cause. in any case, improving your jaw isnt going to do anything for your hips, knees, whatever. that is separate now even if there is some evidence linking that....to your extractions.
more likely, you probably slouched, look down at the floor due to low confidence growing up OR spending too much time sitting around on the computer. or both. more likely than extractions bro.
I've tried time and time again to maintain good posture. I simply cannot. After a few minutes I'll forget and return to slouching.
Idk what to do. I have my ortho saying things will improve (bite, health, dimensions of the face) then people here are saying returning my bite to what it was before will compromise gum health and potentially make me look worse. I've already forked out a large sum of money (?4,500 to be precise) to attempt to fix this mess. Now im not sure if I should stop the treatment and get surgery. urgh I wish It was simple and I never had extractions. God damnit.
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try harder lol. if your posture is out of an alignment it could take months or years to see consistent improvement. years and years of poor posture takes a long time to unwind. if its your neck it may be harder since that area is much more stubborn. but jaw surgery isnt going to do squat, nada.
Well my dentist is also an osteopath and has been helping with my posture. My spines straighter than it used to be and my posture is better than it used to be but could still be improved. I'll try strengthening my core for better posture.
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Well my dentist is also an osteopath and has been helping with my posture. My spines straighter than it used to be and my posture is better than it used to be but could still be improved. I'll try strengthening my core for better posture.
Who is your ortho now?
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My profile seems relatively acceptable but if you look closely on my maxilla theres a small gap (was never able to be closed, I had too much room for 2 teeth being taken out, theres also one on the other side of my maxilla) and due to my teeth grinding from an asymmetrical bite I will eventually grind my teeth down so much my lower canine will fit in that gap from grinding.
Yes from profile my bite seems to be within the acceptable range but it is indeed retruded due to the lack of projection from the maxilla and angle of the teeth.. From the front I have alot of soft tissue just laying around my nose-mouth area and it looks pretty nasty when I talk.
As for the dark circles under the eyes im convinced its from lack of support around the eyes (weak orbitals) from down and back growth from the extractions.
The reason I think my nose is also part of it was because it was centred before puberty, no asymmetry. After puberty I have scoliosis, maxilla and mandible asymmetry that ALL deviate in the same direction as my nose. How can that be a coincidence? how did my nose, both jaws and spine deviate in the same direction? I dont believe that can be by chance. A squint nose by itself? sure, genetics. Midline of my teeth off by a few mm? ok fair enough my dad gave me his squint smile. Everything combined? I dont believe it, not for a second. Especially considering I had a crossbite on only ONE side of my mouth when I was younger.
I have been diagnosed with BDD yes but everyone here can agree that my maxilla lacks projection. Everyone here can see my extraction gaps and everyone here can confirm that extractions make you lose facial dimension.
Im focused on fixing myself back to what I originally was, no dished in midface, no recessed jaw or narrow smile. No teeth grinding. No back pain. No posture issues. No gum recession. I do not want things to happen to my face and body that arent natural.
Have you spoken with a surgeon?
I'm not sure if whatever indicated bimaxillary advancement (2-4mm?) is going to satisfy you, given the length and nature of recovery and the relatively small aesthetic change.
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Have you spoken with a surgeon?
I'm not sure if whatever indicated bimaxillary advancement (2-4mm?) is going to satisfy you, given the length and nature of recovery and the relatively small aesthetic change.
Not yet. My midface is sunken and is very obvious, my face looks very fat around the midface. Not sure how recessed it is actually.
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Not yet. My midface is sunken and is very obvious, my face looks very fat around the midface. Not sure how recessed it is actually.
i cant see how extractions caused this. it might just be you. not everyone has super projecting defined midface.
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i cant see how extractions caused this. it might just be you. not everyone has super projecting defined midface.
Nasolobial folds in certain lighting is natural? lol this is news to me.
Im well aware not everyone is supposed to have a super projected midface but you're telling me my profile isnt recessed and that my nasolobial folds (not literally lines but that recessed triangle look from nose to mouth) like this are completely natural for an 18 year old? nobody of any age is suposed to have that concave soft tissue around the midface which leads to premature wrinkling. (http://www.cosmeticlaserskinsurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/radiesse_for_nasolabial_fold_and_cheeks.jpg)
Under no circumstances is that natural for ANYONE of my age.
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well it is crazy but the bones are super malleable at that age. doesnt surprise me at all, but that sounds a bit suspicious. sleeping on one side causes abnormal growth??
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well it is crazy but the bones are super malleable at that age. doesnt surprise me at all, but that sounds a bit suspicious. sleeping on one side causes abnormal growth??
LOL, I don't buy it either.
I read somewhere that growth spurts during puberty can cause either the upper jaw to grow vertically (Class II) or the lower jaw/mandible to grow horizontally (Class III) that sorta makes sense to me because I've seen a lot of people say ~~"puberty is when things went sour for me"
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LOL, I don't buy it either.
I read somewhere that growth spurts during puberty can cause either the upper jaw to grow vertically (Class II) or the lower jaw/mandible to grow horizontally (Class III) that sorta makes sense to me because I've seen a lot of people say ~~"puberty is when things went sour for me"
yea i agree. i dont think puberty itself causes abnormal growth but rather that is a critical time and the face as well as the body is highly vulnerable to the environment. seeing so many people with similar superficial traits and characteristics and reportedly no familial genetic background that explains the result suggests there is a greater relationship with the environment. not saying it is a cause 100% of the time but highly correlated. if people become more aware of this (especially parents) than emphasis on preventative care becomes more important.
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That sounds absolutely brutal :| fml.
I made a thread about it a while ago, if theres a post history for me on here you can find it. I had 2 upper teeth extracted (biscupids) at either 13 or 14.
I've been feeling around my midface but its hard to tell if my cheekbones are sitting directly above my maxilla. That would surely take away all prominence you couldve had which would suck. I do have central scleral show and some discolouration under my eyes. The dished in midface also.
Will a surgeon be able to go indepth with me about all of this? im really anxious about it. I would absolutely hate to have had vertical growth that was not supposed to happen. Its maddening even thinking about it.
edit: Here is a ceph of my skull from profile. Do you know how to examine/read them?
(http://gyazo.com/e2cb4f775a0b072d581568e4ae8ea8bc.png)
I'm embarrassed to say that I can read cephs (spent too much time learning this) and if you'd like can give you a summary sheet of where your values fit in with the norms.
I can tell you right now you do not have a long lower face. I can do the calculations if you'd like. There are a few indicators that are used to evaluate clockwise rotation of the mandible.
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I'm embarrassed to say that I can read cephs (spent too much time learning this) and if you'd like can give you a summary sheet of where your values fit in with the norms.
I can tell you right now you do not have a long lower face. I can do the calculations if you'd like. There are a few indicators that are used to evaluate clockwise rotation of the mandible.
That would be great. By long lower face do you mean recessed?
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That would be great. By long lower face do you mean recessed?
Yes, but you don't have this.
afaik vertical growth always pushes the lower jaw downwards.
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http://www.reddit.com/tb/1jp4kc (http://www.reddit.com/tb/1jp4kc)
would this be a case where braces / headgear caused unwanted vertical (downward) growth? he wore headgear in 3rd grade and it looks like he had orthodontics for several years when he was very young. his face / skull looks long and narrow...
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This is an old post but following on from extractionsruinsfaces post, I've been looking a lot in to vertical vs horizontal faces and starting to drive myself crazy it's gotten to the point its's causing me anxiety on top of this my occlusion if f***ed because of that damn alf appliance!
I really hope I havn't got vertical growth.
Here is my lat ceph of my skull from profile. Does anyone know how to read them?
I feel the position of my lower jaw is wrong when I move it.
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