jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Aesthetics => Topic started by: Lestat on August 06, 2017, 03:43:55 AM
-
This guy had double jaw surgery, cheek augmentation with ha granules and jaw angle augmentation with medpor implants.
http://www.facialsculptureclinic.com/en/case/jaw-surgery/cheekbone-augmentation/211/
What do you guys think?
-
i was wondering how they made his teeth look so good in the after. then i realized those are full out top and bottom dentures with plastic gums. i'm not that impressed with the result honestly. lens distortion counts for a lot. also if you got medpor implants how come the jaw angles aren't sharp and masculine. they just look super round and dull still. also, cheekbones are not masculine or sharp either. i mean it's "okay" but considering the guy had all his teeth pullled and now has a set of dentures i'm not super impressed.
-
i was wondering how they made his teeth look so good in the after. then i realized those are full out top and bottom dentures with plastic gums. i'm not that impressed with the result honestly. lens distortion counts for a lot. also if you got medpor implants how come the jaw angles aren't sharp and masculine. they just look super round and dull still. also, cheekbones are not masculine or sharp either. i mean it's "okay" but considering the guy had all his teeth pullled and now has a set of dentures i'm not super impressed.
Is there a case to be made that the sharper the augmentation, the worse it will look over time as your face gets more gaunt? I do think that result is quite transformational for him though.. mostly in how his hawk face got rounded out. His jaws already seemed lined up very roughly in the right areas pre-op. If I look at these results too hard, I start to wonder how much did x procedure account for the entire result. He's got so many there's no hope in figuring that out easily enough.
-
Looks good to me. Most people on this forum tend to look upon DeFrancqs results unfavourably though
-
I agree with Lazlo
-
i was wondering how they made his teeth look so good in the after. then i realized those are full out top and bottom dentures with plastic gums. i'm not that impressed with the result honestly. lens distortion counts for a lot. also if you got medpor implants how come the jaw angles aren't sharp and masculine. they just look super round and dull still. also, cheekbones are not masculine or sharp either. i mean it's "okay" but considering the guy had all his teeth pullled and now has a set of dentures i'm not super impressed.
There is very little lens distortion. I had the same pictures taken at DF's office (blue background) - the frontal pic is exactly how I look in real life.
People actually have to consider the REAL WORLD implications of a result like this. He went from looking very unusual to a normal healthy guy - that actually is a huge step up. No, it's not like one of those results from Gunson, Woolford or any of the other worshipped surgeons that JSF members fap over, but it's a perfectly good aesthetic outcome.
-
There is very little lens distortion. I had the same pictures taken at DF's office (blue background) - the frontal pic is exactly how I look in real life.
People actually have to consider the REAL WORLD implications of a result like this. He went from looking very unusual to a normal healthy guy - that actually is a huge step up. No, it's not like one of those results from Gunson, Woolford or any of the other worshipped surgeons that JSF members fap over, but it's a perfectly good aesthetic outcome.
Yep he stands a chance at a normal life now.
Btw I saw an A n G result recently which was considerably worse than this . So ya.
-
Btw I saw an A n G result recently which was considerably worse than this . So ya.
Not possible. Ask anyone here, Arnett and Gunson are INFALLIBLE ::)
-
Not possible. Ask anyone here, Arnett and Gunson are INFALLIBLE ::)
Well Arnett is retired. Given their volume, and radical plans, they are bound to have bad results. Anyway, you don't need ccw rotation.
-
I would not say the Gunson result I saw was "bad". The improvement was milder than this DF case. And like Ukmaxfac said , while this guy may have not turned into an Adonis he has gone from looking well below average to average/slightly above average and healthy (so imp btw , to look HEALTHY) looking.
I am curious too about the implants , would have guessed them to be silicone. Medpor ambassadors wanna chime in?
-
Much of this result is lens distortion, look at the difference in interpupillary distance and the bitemporal distance, both of which were untouched by the surgery. His skin complexion's also brightened up a bit and he's gained some bodyfat. Otherwise it's a great result.
Interesting point about the sharper the augmentation the worse it will look later on as the face gets more gaunt. I think the only way we can answer that is by looking at how gaunt faces respond to implant placement. From what I've seen implants don't look particularly unnatural in gaunt faces on older people. Also 'thinner' faces (which refers to both bodyfat and skin thickness, both of which change over time to produce that gaunt look) are preferred for the placement of implants because the soft tissue responds better to the implant rather than worse. I think a very valid point is that if the implant is designed to be overly angular to compensate for face soft tissue thickness at a young age, it could look too unnatural if that person lost bodyfat and went through the usual skin thinning consequences of aging. Moral of the story: try and lose a lot of bodyfat before getting implants and you should be fine.
-
Very good result. Could have been better with sharper angles.
-
re: medpor results
the limitation of using off the shelf designs if you are having to make compromises with the patients natural anatomy. For borderline cases this isn't a big deal and the result is usually nice, for guys like this, as you can see he had very narrow, but also very high jaw angles before. To the best of my knowledge none of the off-the-shelf commercial models for medpor (or silicone for that matter) provide much vertical augmentation which is what many people would need to appear more "square" from the front.
However, I also want to say that people have unrealistic expectations of what jaw implants can or should achieve... for example, there is constant talk about "sharp" angles and what not, but exceedingly few men have such angular jaws, including male models and hollywood leading men - most, in fact, have U shaped jaws with rounded contours at the angles. So I think what is happening when people are disappointed by the results they see, is they are so used to looking at certain faces as a whole (for example male models with very low bodyfat, who also have fantastic cheekbone development, tented eyes etc) and then seeing only the jaw component delivered on someone who does not have the rest of those features, are very underwhelmed.... well, the jaw implants work as advertised: they provide lateral width at the jaw angles. They will not transform a face completely. This guy has very rounded contours, but so does Pierce Brosnan, and would anyone suggest he is not "masculine" looking?:
(http://cdn2us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/styles/main_wide/public/pierce-brosnan_james-bond.jpg?itok=tgEQhJFS)
Point I'm trying to make is this guy's jaw augmentation looks fine, but the rest of his face remains the same. The best candidates for jaw augmentation are guys who otherwise look fine but have poorly defined jaw angles/posterior mandible. Also for definition, you really need to get to low bodyfat levels before the jawline will "pop". And above all else, if you really desire to look more blocky or square from the front, most people will probably need to look for vertical augmentation. In fact, in the chin wing results that are good, I suspect that is what is going on: the chin wing is good at achieving vertical height, but not so much for sheer width.
-
i will also add taking a closer look at it, the implants selected are too large for his face. They most lateral prominence extends out past the zygomatic arch laterally, which is generally not ideal (ideal is roughly 75-90% of zygomatic prominence).
However this could be residual swelling. Some doctors like to take follow up photos at 6 or 8 weeks but you really 3 months minimum.
-
HE HAS PLASTIC f**kING GUMS. THIS PSYCHODOCTOR PULLED ALL HIS TEET TOP AND BOTTOM. HIS BOTTOM TEETH WEREN'T THAT BAD. IF HE HAD JUST GOTTEN PROPER ORTHODONTIC TREATMENT AND A FEW IMPLANTS. NOW HE HAS TO TAKE THOSE f**kERS OUT EVERY NIGHT AND TURN INTO A SOCK PUPPET. JESUS CHRIST ARE YOU GUYS RETARDED. THIS RESULT SUCKS.
-
HE HAS PLASTIC f**kING GUMS. THIS PSYCHODOCTOR PULLED ALL HIS TEET TOP AND BOTTOM. HIS BOTTOM TEETH WEREN'T THAT BAD. IF HE HAD JUST GOTTEN PROPER ORTHODONTIC TREATMENT AND A FEW IMPLANTS. NOW HE HAS TO TAKE THOSE f**kERS OUT EVERY NIGHT AND TURN INTO A SOCK PUPPET. JESUS CHRIST ARE YOU GUYS RETARDED. THIS RESULT SUCKS.
Could be a fixed bridge on titanium implants. Not ideal, but not a denture either.
-
I think he obviously looks 10x better looking due to his IPD and eye area aesthetics, just my two cents
yeah which are a result of the photography not the f**king surgery jesus.
-
I think that he looks much better. Good job. It struck me that it looks like he had his ears pinned back as well. Was fully expecting to read that in his treatment summary lol.
-
yeah which are a result of the photography not the f**king surgery jesus.
Think he's referring to his starting point IPD being pretty decent, so it really complimented all the cheek, orbital and jaw augmentation 'filling out' performed. His face (from the front) went from ugly hawk eye to handsome territory. Something's off about the ramus area but meh.
-
Think he's referring to his starting point IPD being pretty decent, so it really complimented all the cheek, orbital and jaw augmentation 'filling out' performed. His face (from the front) went from ugly hawk eye to handsome territory. Something's off about the ramus area but meh.
oh yeah and the all plastic and rubber gums he has to slip in and out of his teeth. Trust me even if its all a fixed bridge which its not NONE of that gum tissue is real. These swiss docs are f**king criminals.
-
oh yeah and the all plastic and rubber gums he has to slip in and out of his teeth. Trust me even if its all a fixed bridge which its not NONE of that gum tissue is real. These swiss docs are f**king criminals.
we're talking purely about the aesthetic result. It is good, considering his starting point.
also Defrancq is Belgian, not Swiss ;D
-
The Doc is Belgian.
Lazlo , brother , u ok?
-
The Doc is Belgian.
Lazlo , brother , u ok?
Whatever, Swiss, Belgian etc. etc. same f**king family. Trust me german/swiss/belgian and any other f**king French/German/Swiss speaking country's doctors are shiite. I have had so many damn PMs from patients from Brusco to Triaca to Dr. Z to Joel de Franq etc. etc. that f**king tremble me to the bone. So I'm warning you guys. You don't want to take my warning fine go ahead. And yeah I'm okay. I'm OG motherf**ker. When I say something in this space, I know.
-
Listen, I got some pieces of advice. VERY VERY HARD WON I should be charging a grand a pop for just telling you guys this s**t. Here's the before and after result we all want (pic below). YOU CANT GET THAT WITH CHIN WING. YOU CAN'T GET THAT WITH BIMAX. YOU CAN'T GET THAT WITH CHIN WING PLUS BIMAX PLUS ANOTHER CHIN WING. You might.....might be able to get it with both an amazing custom implant job PLUS fillers every 3 MONTHS FOR MAINTENANCE. I know this now. I didn't know this even last year. THERE IS NO WAY TO REPLICATE SUCH A RESULT NATURALLY (using autologous tissue or grafts or whatever). There is NO SURGERY THAT CAN DO THIS WITHOUT SOME MASSIVE CHUNKS OF MEDPOR AND FILLER. Trust me on this. So if you think any of these surgeries will get you this, they will not. End of story.
And since having some f**king medpor that will most DEFINITELY erode bone tissue AND will possibly cause tissue rejection (in 20 percent) AND WILL STILL NEED TO BE UPDATED every 3 months with filler (I called Eppley and he confirmed filler plus medpor was used in this pic) and since erosion and all this s**t is not acceptable to me I realize we are at a major WALL here. Gotta wait for the next big innovation which is at least a decade away in your neighbourhood max fac. If not 20. So be cool b*tches. I've just saved you all a LOT of pain and heartache.
AND $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Listen, I got some pieces of advice. VERY VERY HARD WON I should be charging a grand a pop for just telling you guys this s**t. Here's the before and after result we all want (pic below). YOU CANT GET THAT WITH CHIN WING. YOU CAN'T GET THAT WITH BIMAX. YOU CAN'T GET THAT WITH CHIN WING PLUS BIMAX PLUS ANOTHER CHIN WING. You might.....might be able to get it with both an amazing custom implant job PLUS fillers every 3 MONTHS FOR MAINTENANCE. I know this now. I didn't know this even last year. THERE IS NO WAY TO REPLICATE SUCH A RESULT NATURALLY (using autologous tissue or grafts or whatever). There is NO SURGERY THAT CAN DO THIS WITHOUT SOME MASSIVE CHUNKS OF MEDPOR AND FILLER. Trust me on this. So if you think any of these surgeries will get you this, they will not. End of story.
And since having some f**king medpor that will most DEFINITELY erode bone tissue AND will possibly cause tissue rejection (in 20 percent) AND WILL STILL NEED TO BE UPDATED every 3 months with filler (I called Eppley and he confirmed filler plus medpor was used in this pic) and since erosion and all this s**t is not acceptable to me I realize we are at a major WALL here. Gotta wait for the next big innovation which is at least a decade away in your neighbourhood max fac. If not 20. So be cool b*tches. I've just saved you all a LOT of pain and heartache.
AND $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
eppley has better results from implants alone. Are you sure thats medpor + filler?
-
Thank you for sharing Lestat.
I think the guy looks better on the after picture, thus I'd say the results are successful for him if the pictures are taken when there is no swelling present anymore. Maybe putting the same changes for another person would not work.
The link you provided was very informative for me...
(The people on that web page seem like their surgery RESULTS are little like my face before my surgery and their before pictures look like my changes after the surgery.... Need to start seriously looking for someone who can fix my face. Especially the upper face cheek eye area that suppports the whole lower face from not sagging needs implants. Now my mouth is 1/2 smaller and turned in to constant frown... thanks to my dr... who said "We can do something about those lips." And I did not agree since I only needed less fix that his usual patients. I'm so afraid getting implants after reading all of these warning how they will cause problems... I'm so angry too for my chosen doctor for doing the mess he did. My life has turned in to survival mode where I'm not living anymore... It disgusts me that he just can continue like nothing happened. Only a psychofreak does surgeries without consent and those people should be banned from all of their boards and societies and licence taken away.)
-
eppley has better results from implants alone. Are you sure thats medpor + filler?
Could you please link Eppley results that have implants alone and no fillers?
Does he do custom implants?
(I wonder how advanced is the custom implant industry nowadays...
I would think it would be easy to scan several great facial bone structures and soft tissues to a data bank and then scan the ones that need fixing and compare those good ones and the ones which need alteration. Based on that do the 3D print model based on the gaps there is between the desired look and the current look. And if there was too much material in somewhere on the facestructures that need fixing the programme would show on computer screen the area to burr away eg. with red... and green eg. would be the custom implant... )
-
Could you please link Eppley results that have implants alone and no fillers?
Does he do custom implants?
(I wonder how advanced is the custom implant industry nowadays...
I would think it would be easy to scan several great facial bone structures and soft tissues to a data bank and then scan the ones that need fixing and compare those good ones and the ones which need alteration. Based on that do the 3D print model based on the gaps there is between the desired look and the current look. And if there was too much material in somewhere on the facestructures that need fixing the programme would show on computer screen the area to burr away eg. with red... and green eg. would be the custom implant... )
he has many in his archives
some good, some meh, some completely dogs**t
start here, theres a very recent one: http://exploreplasticsurgery.com/category/custom-facial-implants/
-
and just so you guys realize. i'm sure even eppley is cherry picking the best. most jaw angle/chin implants I've seen just give a rounded but slightly wider chin like this belgian doc did, and don't get me started on asymmetries.
-
oh yeah and the all plastic and rubber gums he has to slip in and out of his teeth. Trust me even if its all a fixed bridge which its not NONE of that gum tissue is real. These swiss docs are f**king criminals.
It says in his case that his teeth were on the way out (amelogenesis imperfect). He was gonna lose his teeth anyway. I might be too cynical myself, but some of the other of this doc's post-op cases have wider faces, even when no implants are mentioned. He might me photographing the post ops slightly closer, or with a different lens.
-
Whatever, Swiss, Belgian etc. etc. same f**king family. Trust me german/swiss/belgian and any other f**king French/German/Swiss speaking country's doctors are shiite. I have had so many damn PMs from patients from Brusco to Triaca to Dr. Z to Joel de Franq etc. etc. that f**king tremble me to the bone. So I'm warning you guys. You don't want to take my warning fine go ahead. And yeah I'm okay. I'm OG motherf**ker. When I say something in this space, I know.
Swiss speaking ? :o
Yeah your point is taken but there are bad outcomes on each side of the Atlantic. I am very hopeful about Dr Zarrinball and I have got plenty of positive testimonials about him where I have seen candid B n As.
Regarding this result , no one said he turned into a male model but clearly there is an objective improvement from his former self. Without a doubt his life has changed for the better. His teeth , well he is not a 5 or even 15 year old . He is a grown ass man and if he elected to have them replaced thats his choice. Regarding ipd , idk wtf you guys r going on about. The pic in repose the after is slightly differently sized (in the after maybe the camera zoomed in a tad). If u resize it , no he does not go back to looking like his old self. In pic where he laughing , ipd looks precisely the same and the difference is day and night.
I just do not feel there is one size fits all in surgery. There is no "answer". You just figure out what can help ur case and take certain chances.
-
This is actually not a bad result at all, also considering his starting point. Sure, you could say his jaw is a little bit too wide (wider than zygos), but the fact he's not an adonis or something like that, is not due to his jaw, but other flaws like philtrum for example and negative canthal tilt. Also, look at how many things Defrancq did. This is a sign of a surgeon that looks at the whole package/facial dimensions and addresses multiple points/areas. One have to consider the fact this is not easy to execute at all. He also flipped his ears backwards. You need high level skills to do these things at once and 'see' the whole picture.
I consulted Defrancq and he was one of the few surgeons that could address multiple things at the same time, taking the whole face into consideration, and he really analyses things profoundly. The results on his site are good and subtle/natural. I was quite impressed by his analyzing skills. He layed down almost all my facial flaws and also brought up the solutions. He went into great detail. Besides, he mostly uses PEEK now, which is superior to medpor and certainly to silicone. He works together with Dr. van der Dussen, who has great knowledge about facial proportions and facial harmony. They do some surgeries together. Van der Dussen for example, is specialized in noses, and Defrancq in jawwork.
I wouldn't dismiss these two older guys. They also seem frank and they won't advice things you don't need purely for the money. Van der Dussen is a very nice man by the way. I like to hear him talk about facial proportions and how it's all about those millimeters.
-
This is actually not a bad result at all, also considering his starting point. Sure, you could say his jaw is a little bit too wide (wider than zygos), but the fact he's not an adonis or something like that, is not due to his jaw, but other flaws like philtrum for example and negative canthal tilt. Also, look at how many things Defrancq did. This is a sign of a surgeon that looks at the whole package/facial dimensions and addresses multiple points/areas. One have to consider the fact this is not easy to execute at all. He also flipped his ears backwards. You need high level skisss to do these things at once and 'see' the whole picture.
I consulted Defrancq and he was one of the few surgeons that could address multiple things at the same time, taking the whole face into consideration, and he really analyses things profoundly. The results on his site are good and subtle/natural. I was quite impressed by his analyzing skisss. He layed down almost all my facial flaws and also brought up the solutions. He went into great detail. Besides, he mostly uses PEEK now, which is superior to medpor and certainly to silicone. He works together with Dr. van der Dussen, who has great knowledge about facial proportions and facial harmony. They do some surgeries together. Van der Dussen for example, is specialized in noses, and Defrancq in jawwork.
I wouldn't dismiss these two older guys. They also seem frank and they won't advice things you don't need purely for the money. Van der Dussen is a very nice man by the way. I like to hear him talk about facial proportions and how it's all about those millimeters.
I had a positive experience with DeFrancq too. His results I saw were better than his work online and less subtle than some of his work online imo.
-
I only saw him in consult btw.