jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => General Chat => Topic started by: x on July 29, 2013, 10:01:59 PM
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10 years earlier?
cause ignorance is bliss and all that, but I want to hear what you guys think. how different would your 20's have been? do you think you'd be able to 'get over' knowing about it?
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you mean about the possibility of this surgery? it's actually tough to say, cause in a sense 10 years ago the internet didn't have all these resources etc.. so i might have ended up with some s**tty surgery and i wouldn't have known about the top surgeons or techniques currently available to me.
that said, if i could be dealing with this 10 years younger, i'd have more prime years to enjoy the results so all things being equal, i wish i had known about this ages ago, and acted on it.
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you mean about the possibility of this surgery? it's actually tough to say, cause in a sense 10 years ago the internet didn't have all these resources etc.. so i might have ended up with some s**tty surgery and i wouldn't have known about the top surgeons or techniques currently available to me.
that said, if i could be dealing with this 10 years younger, i'd have more prime years to enjoy the results so all things being equal, i wish i had known about this ages ago, and acted on it.
see my edit: "how different would your 20's have been? do you think you'd be able to 'get over' knowing about it?"
basically I want to know if your life would've taken a different course?
I like your optimistic outlook but I'm convinced it'd take a turn for the worst almost universally for all of us, considering how OCD we are now. There is no such thing as perfection, there will always be something to fix, and sometimes it's better not to know since no one has perfect jaw alignment (or perfect anything)
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for me this has nothing to do with girls. i could get girls before and i can now, that's not a problem.
but i disagree that the overall gestalt will not change. that's precisely what will change because with a balanced jaw and chin the overall proportions of your face will change radically. especially in my case i'm having a fairly extreme set of changes. chin lengthened and advanced, jaw advanced quite a bit, and I'm having the equivalent of a lefort II which will radically raise my cheekbones making my nose smaller.
and i absolutely do find that when I change things about myself --lose 20 lbs, get in shape and have a good haircut I look much much better. so this will only add to all that.
i'm going to look like a f**king boss after all this is said and done, no doubt about it.
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for me this has nothing to do with girls. i could get girls before and i can now, that's not a problem.
but i disagree that the overall gestalt will not change. that's precisely what will change because with a balanced jaw and chin the overall proportions of your face will change radically. especially in my case i'm having a fairly extreme set of changes. chin lengthened and advanced, jaw advanced quite a bit, and I'm having the equivalent of a lefort II which will radically raise my cheekbones making my nose smaller.
and i absolutely do find that when I change things about myself --lose 20 lbs, get in shape and have a good haircut I look much much better. so this will only add to all that.
i'm going to look like a f**king boss after all this is said and done, no doubt about it.
I didn't say it was necessarily just about girls. If you feel you need to look like a boss to be perceived as one than you're already proving your susceptible to other people's judgments of your superficial appearance. Otherwise you would act the part without feeling you had to look it, that is the mark of a true alpha. look at Joe Pesci in Goodfellas for reference
also i don't think lefort ii touches the cheekbones, otherwise I'd say screw it and get it done ;D
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yes a quadrangular lefort touches the cheekbones, i mean quadrangular lefort II.
anyway, did you hear back from the ortho about expansion?
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yes a quadrangular lefort touches the cheekbones, i mean quadrangular lefort II.
anyway, did you hear back from the ortho about expansion?
negative
i see you ignored the gestalt of my post
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negative
i see you ignored the gestalt of my post
no you misinterpreted the sense of my post --i didn't mean "boss" as in seeming alpha or how i was perceived or anything. i just meant "boss' as in awesome. i didn't want to get into the whole discussion about other people's perceptions etc. euphoria, i recognize my own aesthetic flaws and i want them fixed for my own sake, for my own sense of being able to appreciate my own appearance. i'm sure that how others relate to me will possibly change when i relate to myself in a more positive fashion. anyway, i don't really want to get into this discussion because i have to have this surgery now for largely functional reasons and so since i have to have it, i want to be as careful about the aesthetic payoff as well.
my desires for facial and other types of transformation are ENTIRELY motivated by my own interest in aesthetics and my own standards. sad but true. i have always, since I was a little boy been sensitive to aesthetics and my own appearance and had a more or else ideal vision of myself which i wanted to attain. whether this is possible or not, i don't care, i can't change what I want.
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I'll be blatantly honest though, it's a struggle feeling sympathy for the extractions guys when you feel your entire growth was altered during the truly important times the face is shaped. you say my face looks fine but that doesn't mean things went as planned and there's something very unsettling about knowing that, I have 2 brothers to look to for comparison. Also, my skeleton, which is 'complex' as you described it (and I agree).
comparing extractions to abnormal childhood growth is like comparing a paper cut to an amputation
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i think euph's case is more obvious, his bite problem is blatant and aesthetically u have more to lose bro.
i wish there were some photos that showed extractions ruining faces as we hear often.
the lack of orthodontic work as a kid - imo - is good. i think most people dont really need braces. if u had 8+ years of ortho work i imagine you would look vastly different.
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i wish there were some photos that showed extractions ruining faces as we here often.
I second this request.
Anybody? ... Bueller?
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it really depends
my ortho was focused on retraining my abnormal muscular activity with the f**king works, and I'm not exaggerating. expanding my upper arch, making me wear the FR appliance so that my lips & facial muscles acted normally instead of abnormally, wearing a neck brace at night to keep my mouth closed so I didn't mouth breathe, removing enlarged adenoids & tonsils
if you have a quack for an ortho I can understand where you're coming from, but I think I would've been a lot worse off without treatment
What age did you wear that appliance.? Do you feel it helped you? Who was your ortho?
Are you having surgery ?
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i think orthos seriously overrate their ability to manipulate jaw growth. in almost every case ive seen growth becomes undermines and sometimes destroyed with all the novelty appliances orthos pick up at conferences. i would like to see cases where orthodontic work guides and corrects growth disorders.
with teeth i can see orthos doing work, but beyond that it's more of a money maker than actually controlling facial growth.
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if you have a quack for an ortho I can understand where you're coming from, but I think I would've been a lot worse off without treatment
i think my ortho was a quack despite his good reputation (catering to all the rich/elite kids in Westlake (Austin, TX) although I was never given a head-gear he had me on springs and those super thick rubber bands while I was in 7th and 8th grade
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What age did you wear that appliance.? Do you feel it helped you? Who was your ortho?
Are you having surgery ?
I was too young to appreciate whether it helped or not, nature is cruel like that. By the time you have capacity to understand the ramifications of not correcting these habits, it's too late. I was pretty rebellious about wearing it, something I regret to this day. I can't remember how long I wore the FR, but I think I started around age 10-11.
more here: http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,793.0.html (http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php/topic,793.0.html)
I'll pm you the ortho's name, he's a functional ortho I think. Only uses damon braces, doesn't do extractions unless they're absolutely necessary, etc
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i think orthos seriously overrate their ability to manipulate jaw growth. in almost every case ive seen growth becomes undermines and sometimes destroyed with all the novelty appliances orthos pick up at conferences. i would like to see cases where orthodontic work guides and corrects growth disorders.
with teeth i can see orthos doing work, but beyond that it's more of a money maker than actually controlling facial growth.
possibly, but imo and it's only that, i look better than a lot of adenoid facies guys. whether that can be attributed to the ortho's work or not is anyone's guess
tell your ortho he's an asshole for me
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Do you still feel you need surgery? If so, what kind of surgical movements?
Can you sleep with your mouth closed now?
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Do you still feel you need surgery? If so, what kind of surgical movements?
Can you sleep with your mouth closed now?
need it no, but want it kind of. I'll likely need my maxilla impacted to close the open bite and advanced, then a genio to square off the face
and no I still mouth breathe at night, fix one problem (enlarged adenoids & tonsils) and another presents itself (deviated septum & enlarged turbinates)
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If you use the same ortho for surgery will he should be free of charge now. I think that is customary or at least good business.
You should fix the nasal breathing issues first before jaw surgery.
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If you use the same ortho for surgery will he should be free of charge now. I think that is customary or at least good business.
You should fix the nasal breathing issues first before jaw surgery.
actually I've been trying to get that answered
if I get the deviated septum fixed before upper jaw surgery, is there a chance the surgery would necessitate a revision septoplasty?
I do want to get it fixed badly because mouth breathing is awful and leaves you feeling drained all the time
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They have an in office procedure for shrinking the turbinates now using a cold ablation technique.
Takes 10 minutes.
Maybe you can look into that just to help a little till you have the surgery.
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They have an in office procedure for shrinking the turbinates now using a cold ablation technique.
Takes 10 minutes.
Maybe you can look into that just to help a little till you have the surgery.
That's actually good advice, thanks. do the turbinates now & septoplasty with or after the surgery, makes sense
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i think my ortho was a quack despite his good reputation (catering to all the rich/elite kids in Westlake (Austin, TX) although I was never given a head-gear he had me on springs and those super thick rubber bands while I was in 7th and 8th grade
i had the springs and super thick rubber bands. are those bad for growth? i remember the springs so annoying.
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i had the springs and super thick rubber bands. are those bad for growth? i remember the springs so annoying.
I had rubber bands too, to close the huge gaps left after I had my molars extracted. I wonder if it made my jaw recession worse I have the exact same facial structure as my father but my chin/jaw recession is 10x worse. It seems that it's a lot easier to disrupt growth via orthodontics than to create growth. However, I didn't have the bands til I was about 15 so it's likely that my bones had already stopped growing. I certainly didn't gain any height after 15.
Euphoria, mouth breathing is horrible. Not being able to breath through the nose is the worst feeling ever! One of the reasons I got a rhino was for my septum, which was super deviated - the tiniest hint of a cold and I couldn't breathe. Not being able to breath through the nose for a week was probably the hardest part of recovery from rhinoplasty so I cannot imagine living like that permanently. If they are careful with the upper jaw surgery then I would have thought any prior septoplasty would be OK if it was fully healed.
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i had the springs and super thick rubber bands. are those bad for growth? i remember the springs so annoying.
no idea, don't think so but who really knows?
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no idea, don't think so but who really knows?
i think it's generally unhealthy for the teeth to be subject to so much force. imo it just wears the teeth down, especially if it's 6+ years of stuff in your mouth. not just typical train tracks. plus it really messes with oral posture because your lips are always in an unnatural position, at least for me it was like that.
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I had rubber bands too, to close the huge gaps left after I had my molars extracted. I wonder if it made my jaw recession worse I have the exact same facial structure as my father but my chin/jaw recession is 10x worse. It seems that it's a lot easier to disrupt growth via orthodontics than to create growth. However, I didn't have the bands til I was about 15 so it's likely that my bones had already stopped growing. I certainly didn't gain any height after 15.
Euphoria, mouth breathing is horrible. Not being able to breath through the nose is the worst feeling ever! One of the reasons I got a rhino was for my septum, which was super deviated - the tiniest hint of a cold and I couldn't breathe. Not being able to breath through the nose for a week was probably the hardest part of recovery from rhinoplasty so I cannot imagine living like that permanently. If they are careful with the upper jaw surgery then I would have thought any prior septoplasty would be OK if it was fully healed.
hmm that is very interesting, I'd like to experience mouth breathing for just a week just to feel the magnitude of difference
I think the scariest is when I smoke weed, occasionally for some reason it will start feeling like I'm really really struggling to breathe and I have to forcibly concentrate on breathing through my mouth to not suffocate. I don't know if it's a mind thing or if it's really how I feel all the time without realizing it.
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I cannot sleep at all if I can't breathe through my nose. It was by far the worst part of rhinoplasty recovery and I expect it to be the worse part of jaw surgery recovery should I decide to undergo it. So I really feel for you Euphoria, if it was me I would be doing the septoplasty now, and wouldn't care if I had to redo it. I hate not being able to breath that much
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When you guys say can't breathe through your nose at night do you mean not at all? I can never breathe enough air through my nose exclusively while sleeping so keep my mouth open. But it's not the claustrophobic cant move any air through my nose type of situation. Can nighttime mouth breathing mess up your growth??? :-[
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If they had figured out the cause of my breathing problem when I finally went to the dr in my 20's, instead of mutilating my nose, they would have realized the problem was in my throat or upper airway...I would be a different person, an able-bodied person!
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So upper airway is an umbrella terms that includes the nose.
What makes you think it's not your nose? You had a sleep endoscopy didn't you? What were the results and what other tests did you have? I'm curious!
Today is another morning that I'm grouchy as hell because I feel like I didn't sleep. Again. And I'm tired of people telling me how tired I am. I listened to some of Steven parks podcasts. Interestingly, I have to shake a lot of hands during the day and am constantly apologizing to people for my ice cold hands...