jawsurgeryforums.com
General Category => Emotional Support => Topic started by: Bitterbiter on September 29, 2013, 01:12:02 PM
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Ok, I have a question? In general I feel plastic surgery on almost all occasions makes a person look worse or freakish..I understand most jaw patients are correcting their bites for function. Having said that, is jaw surgery considered plastic surgery? If so do most patients that were once good looking look worse after jaw surgery, just to correct their bite? Interested in answer, for most people on this site do you think you look better now or before you had surgery? Do you consider this plastic surgery?
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Most people look better after jaw surgery, IMO, because the jawline is really important for overall facial attractiveness and a lot of us have something significantly off about our faces. I don't think there are many people who are "really good looking" before jaw surgery as it is quite rare to have significant functional problems without it showing in the facial structure.
I've had various 'PS' procedures, minor and more major. Chin lipo? Looked great. Botox to raise the edge of the brow? No-one asked me if I'd had botox, I could still move my face, it was subtle and looked natural (I didnt get other areas, though) My rhino didn't change the size, just the shape of my nose, and I don't think it looks fake. My other Father didn't even notice! Sure, some nosejobs look bad (I've seen a lot of bad ones here in the Middle East) but subtle rhinos often look great. Scarlett Johannsen? Blake Lively?
PS usually looks bad when people go over-the-top (e.g. getting 3 syringes of Juvederm in their lips instead of 1, or getting a teeny tiny pointy nose, or big fake boobs on a small frame). Some of the older eye jobs and facelifts do look pretty bad though - modern techniques are definitely better
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I dunno, I was hanging out with some strippers last weekend and they all had so called "subtle" work down, small injections of stuff to turn up their lip corners or try and give their lips more of a C shape and these girls were young, like mid 20s and I'm sorry, you can tell something is F'd up about their appearance. I can immediately tell when someone has fillers even if it's subtly done, it just makes the face and texture look horrible. I agree jaw surgery is essentially undectable from appearances and it's gross.
But there's really nothing that can beat natural beauty, health and a good personality. People with natural beauty are lucky. I don't give a s**t what people say, people with good cheerful, vibrant personalities come off as much much more attractive. And yes, it's your fault if you have a s**tty personality.
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I don't think there are many people who are "really good looking" before jaw surgery as it is quite rare to have significant functional problems without it showing in the facial structure.
I don't think it's that rare to be good looking and have something obviously off about your facial structure.
(http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/tyler-posey.jpg)
(http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/31000000/tyler-tyler-posey-31021343-1280-1024.jpg)
Tyler Posey is pretty good-looking ^ I wonder what his bite is like..
My jaw asymmetry is a much milder version of his.
Also Joey Richter's crooked jaw, he's pretty good-looking too Joey Richter - Crooked Jaw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH0T1TjFHnA#)
But there's really nothing that can beat natural beauty, health and a good personality. People with natural beauty are lucky. I don't give a s**t what people say, people with good cheerful, vibrant personalities come off as much much more attractive. And yes, it's your fault if you have a s**tty personality.
I lol'd, so true though.
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there is a line between superficial jaw bone deficiencies and total bone structure deformity. most people with over or undergrowth of the upper jaw can have devastating consequences for the rest of the face. while less than ideal development of the lower jaw is totally fixable most of the time.
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Yeah, is nothing like natural beauty and personality does make a person that more pretty... However when people hit a certain age 35, 40 their looks definitely decline...feel bad for woman because usually at about 40 this happens, hormones, etc...men usually stay more attractive longer or have more appeal to the younger opposite sex..women can either stay young with plastic surgery and get ridiculed or not have it and look older and less attractive..no win situation, that's society! So seems like most people think jaw surgery is undetectable, that should pass as natural beauty because for most if orthos didn't f up your bite or face at a young age, this is what you naturally would of looked like...
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They say cheeks are what makes you attractive, does jaw surgery give you better cheeks? For a man or woman?
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No? Well if you look at all these plastic surgery sites they state that cheeks are what support the face, what people focus on, make a person look young or old? I would think if ones jaw was adjusted would have some effect on cheeks seeing that cheeks rest on your upper jaw at least? Don't know anyone see better cheeks after surgery or have gotten implants?fillers with natural results?
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No? Well if you look at all these plastic surgery sites they state that cheeks are what support the face, what people focus on, make a person look young or old? I would think if ones jaw was adjusted would have some effect on cheeks seeing that cheeks rest on your upper jaw at least? Don't know anyone see better cheeks after surgery or have gotten implants?fillers with natural results?
Lefort I cuts below the cheeks, they don't move at all: http://www.intelligentdental.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/F21_large.jpg (http://www.intelligentdental.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/F21_large.jpg)
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I had a minimal class 111, jaw got advanced, I now have more angular cheeks then before, so yes it does impact cheeks, at least upper jaw surgery does
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Re: Tyler Posey is pretty good-looking ^ I wonder what his bite is like..
My jaw asymmetry is a much milder version of his.
Also Joey Richter's crooked jaw, he's pretty good-looking too Joey Richter - Crooked Jaw
Both Tyler and Joey would be great candidates for neuromuscular dentistry. Especially Joey who has issues with TMJ. I bet Tyler also has issues with his TMJ as you cannot have an asymmetrical jaw without it causing unequal wear of that joint.
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This whole, 'neuromuscular dentistry' sounds a bit snake oily to me anyhow.
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This whole, 'neuromuscular dentistry' sounds a bit snake oily to me anyhow.
And you think orthodontestry and maxillofacial surgery is based on science? Show me the evidence? I've only had my orthotics on for 3 weeks. For the first time since my double jaw surgery 30 years ago have I bean able to chew normally. That is: equally on both sides and straight up and down. Before I could only chew on my right side and my jaw would be all over the place during the process causing excessive wear on my teeth.
Just because asymmetries are ubiquitous in western society doesn't mean asymmetry is normal. Research conducted over a period of 25 years by Weston Price showed that it isn't genetics causing all the issues we're seeing with crowded teeth and misaligned jaws but a nutrient deficiency during prenatal development when the dental/nasal arch is formed during early pregnancy. See http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041 (http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041)
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And you think orthodontestry and maxillofacial surgery is based on science? Show me the evidence? I've only had my orthotics on for 3 weeks. For the first time since my double jaw surgery 30 years ago have I bean able to chew normally. That is: equally on both sides and straight up and down. Before I could only chew on my right side and my jaw would be all over the place during the process causing excessive wear on my teeth.
Just because asymmetries are ubiquitous in western society doesn't mean asymmetry is normal. Research conducted over a period of 25 years by Weston Price showed that it isn't genetics causing all the issues we're seeing with crowded teeth and misaligned jaws but a nutrient deficiency during prenatal development when the dental/nasal arch is formed during early pregnancy. See http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041 (http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041)
i dont buy it. i look like a distant relative who was born in 1905 on a farm in germany. this long before any processed foods wer around,especially in rural germany. he had (like me) every maxlo craniofacial issue there is. sloped farhead,recesed jaw,messed up maxilla,hypoplastic midfacd and a lazy bulging eye. he was on a traditional farm diet and still looked like that.
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i dont buy it. i look like a distant relative who was born in 1905 on a farm in germany. this long before any processed foods wer around,especially in rural germany. he had (like me) every maxlo craniofacial issue there is. sloped farhead,recesed jaw,messed up maxilla,hypoplastic midfacd and a lazy bulging eye. he was on a traditional farm diet and still looked like that.
How did he find a woman to have sex with then?
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How did he find a woman to have sex with then?
Looks were less important back then. Women could not provide for themselves, so being a good provider was all that mattered.
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I had a minimal class 111, jaw got advanced, I now have more angular cheeks then before, so yes it does impact cheeks, at least upper jaw surgery does
I agree, my cheeks definitely changed for the worse after double jaw surgery. The bones may not change but the muscles supporting the cheeks definitely do. People should realize that jaw surgery is an extreme procedure that is barbaric and antiquated and surgeons either have no clue about the long term effects on the face as a whole or they don't care. It should be reserved for only the most severe cases of deformity. Other options are available that don't carry the high risk of permanent disfigurement with better functional and esthetic results (i.e. Neuromuscular dentistry)
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How did he find a woman to have sex with then?
women being into looks is a pretty new thing . Before a womans first concern was survival and being able to eat. The guys looks really didn't come into lay much. Now women have their own money, careers etc. They don't need a man to survive. So now they can chose who they want. I know a lot of short unattractive male doctors who cant get a date for their life. 20+ years ago they would have been able to get any woman they wanted. In a way its a reverse of what ugly women went through for all these generations. They were cast aside as inferior genes, now its ugly men's turn.
Back to the environment discussion. For years I sit to sit and stir over how I was brought up. I had a pacifier until I was 4 which is aweful for jaw development, I was an extremely picky eater so was very underweight all my childhood (parents didn't put effort into getting me to eat), and I had difficulty breathing through my nose so I breathed through my mouth most of the time. Now that think about although all these things definitely didn't help, I now don't think it really made that much of a difference. I mean yeah it definitely didn't help , but at the end of the day I resemble that relative. even if I had an ideal environment maybe it would of made a slight difference(so my jaw would have been( recessed 5mm instead of 6), but it wouldn't have done anything significant.
You have to remember all these models male and female grew up breathing the same air, eating the same processed food ,living in the same place as the people with maxilla/cranio issues. You can take a baby brad pitt raise him on all the processed foods in the world, give him a pacifier until 5, he will still be good looking when he grows up.
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You have to remember all these models male and female grew up breathing the same air, eating the same processed food ,living in the same place as the people with maxilla/cranio issues. You can take a baby brad pitt raise him on all the processed foods in the world, give him a pacifier until 5, he will still be good looking when he grows up.
Yes, and environment can only affect someone in a negative way. It can only exacerbate underlying problems. A good environment can never make someone exceed their genetic potential. If your genetics are garbage then a good environment will do nothing to improve your situation.
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Yes, and environment can only affect someone in a negative way. It can only exacerbate underlying problems. A good environment can never make someone exceed their genetic potential. If your genetics are garbage then a good environment will do nothing to improve your situation.
although i dont buy it i will admit if i ever had kids i would try all this stuff. vitamin k2, unprocesed foods ,fight mouth breathing, orthodontic pacifier until 2, hey it cant hurt
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why do I want kids, is an interesting question and one I do wrestle with. I do realize its very very likely they will look like me or some variation, my hope is they would like my future wife's family. Unattractive people can have kids ,but that's not the norm. for the most part attractive or at least normal looking people have attractive kids while ugly people have ugly kids. but on the other hand I want kids and I feel a life without kids is worthless. Also these issuies are getting easier to deal with. compare 2014 to 30 years ago. My BSSO surgeon told me when he first started doing this surgery back in the late 60's this was one dangerous surgery,but now thanks to advances in anesthesia, monitoring etc its very safe.
we as a society are more looks oriented today than ever. Just look at tv. the men who headlines tv shows back in the 70s wouldn't even get into the cast today, leading men like judd hirsh,gabe Kaplan etc. Now even the "nerd" is a somewhat built good looking guy just with glasses on.
I don't think usa will turn into korea with ugly people getting surgery. most ugly people don't even realize theyre ugly or fully grasp it. And if they do a lot just commit suicide. There was a girl in the paper by me recently who killed herself after people called her ugly
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anglii,
your whole story sounds fishy to me. Every time you post on a thread you have the same sob story and in the end you desperately try to promote 'neuromuscular dentistry' .
It'd be nice if we see some real evidence and perhaps post some pics for us... other than that you're nothing but a clever marketing ploy.
And you think orthodontestry and maxillofacial surgery is based on science? Show me the evidence? I've only had my orthotics on for 3 weeks. For the first time since my double jaw surgery 30 years ago have I bean able to chew normally. That is: equally on both sides and straight up and down. Before I could only chew on my right side and my jaw would be all over the place during the process causing excessive wear on my teeth.
Just because asymmetries are ubiquitous in western society doesn't mean asymmetry is normal. Research conducted over a period of 25 years by Weston Price showed that it isn't genetics causing all the issues we're seeing with crowded teeth and misaligned jaws but a nutrient deficiency during prenatal development when the dental/nasal arch is formed during early pregnancy. See http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041 (http://www.amazon.com/Vitamin-K2-Calcium-Paradox-Little-Known/dp/0062320041)
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women being into looks is a pretty new thing . Before a womans first concern was survival and being able to eat. The guys looks really didn't come into play much.
Actually, it is an old thing - a very old thing. It is a myth that women don't care about looks. They do, and it is wired into the genes. There was a study done not that long ago that tracked womens' eye movements when shown 3 male figures. The 3 figures had different heights and hip:waist:shoulder ratios and the women pretty much ignored the smaller, less 'masculine' shaped figure. (The study actually focusses on penis size but I think that is erroneous because it's really not the first the thing that is apparent when you look at this picture, the authors just wanted something new to publish. This thing is basically the female equivalent of men in general preferring low waist-to-hip ratio etc)
Here is the image -
(http://www.doublexscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/threefigures.jpg)
Then you've got all the stuff about women being on the pill (ie. their body believes it is pregnant) preferring less masculine guys that they would if they were not on the pill, and ovulating (ie. fertile) women preferring more masculine guys than non-ovulating ladies, etc. etc. etc......
As I've mentioned before, the reason we have lots of crappy teeth and jaws now and we may not had such bad teeth/jaws prior to the neolithic is due to genetics as much as diet. Lots of s**tty genes are able to survive now while in the neolithic they wouldn't have had a chance. That is due to a variety of factors (and one of those factors is that we are a lot more monogamous than we used to be. We didn't have gorilla-style harems but we didn't have nearly so many instances of women having the majority of their kids by the same father like we do now and there was more freedom to chose your desired 'mating strategy' - whereas in more modern times (post neolithic revolution) we have generally been forced into long-term (and therefore more monogamous) mating (or at least reproducing) strategies. Now, perhaps, we are starting to see a slightly shift back....)
I find it interesting comparing Europe (especially northern Europe) to where I live now, in the Middle East. Society here is incredibly shallow and everyone wears tons of makeup and spends a lot of time and effort grooming. The standards are so much higher than they are in the UK and compared to places like Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway...wow. I feel like the women there bring a lot more than their looks to the table so they don't have to waste so much time and effort making sure they look impeccable. Living here feels a bit like living in the 1950s (or the 1550s at times....)
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I find it interesting comparing Europe (especially northern Europe) to where I live now, in Dubai. Society here is incredibly shallow and everyone wears tons of makeup and spends a lot of time and effort grooming. The standards are so much higher than they are in the UK and compared to places like Germany, Austria, Denmark, Norway...wow. I feel like the women there bring a lot more than their looks to the table so they don't have to waste so much time and effort making sure they look impeccable. Living here feels a bit like living in the 1950s (or the 1550s at times....)
Aren't Gulf Arabs incredibly inbred? BTW, I wonder what effect UV exposure has on dentition quality. Stereotypical bad teeth seem to be a Northern European trait.
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also they say chicken liver is a good source of vit k2. chicken liver is a traditional food eaten by jews especially on th sabbath. its cooked then chopped and called chopped liver. i never ate it as a kid but my parents did (also while i was in the womb). maxillo issuez are very common to european jews. with all the liver and other organ meats they traditionally ate they shoild have had enogh k2
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Is vitamin k2, calcium and vit. D good for post jaw surgery recovery?
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yes but get liquid versions
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K, cool. Its on my checklist for items get before my surgery.
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It actually really doesn't matter if you take fat soluble vitamins in liquid form. Taking them in an oil base (which can be either in capsules or liquid, NOT tablets) is potentially helpful, but even that is not necessary. What is necessary, is making sure you take ALL fat soluble vitamins with a meal containing fat. This allows them to be optimally absorbed.
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after jaw surgsry liquid is better since your banded shut
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Yea im going to be wired shut for a week. Yea my surgeon still does that. He said in the future hes going to just use bands, but right now he likes the results with being wired shut for just a week. So it will have to liquid vitamins for now. I already have a very good morning and night smoothie that are both over 1000 calories, so I should be good with nutrition. Jus have to add some other liquids in there during the day and both thr drinks are packed with a decent amount of protein and really good fats. I'll just have to work my appeitite up a little more before my surgery.
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also try l glutamine
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What does that help? I know its an amino acid and aids in recovery. Maybe I just answered it myself lol. I actually have some :) I weightlift, so luckily I eat pretty healthy. Also, people on here talk about staying away from carbs on here, why so? I eat carbs, but its from oats usually..anyways, your suppose to get like 60% of calories from carbs
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Yes, I temporarily forgot about the whole not being able to open your mouth thing. Sorry. The other thing about fat soluble vitamins is that they take awhile to build up in your system; it's not like taking B vitamins, where they are immediately available. If you want to improve your status, ideally, you really should start taking them a few (if not several) months before surgery.
Cheers!
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Good, then im set:) I have a cup of walnuts a day in my morning shake, plus flaxseeds and then at night I have peanut butter in my other shake. So im getting a good amount of poly and monounsaturated fats, plus omega 3,6, &9..I think Ishould be good.
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What does that help? I know its an amino acid and aids in recovery. Maybe I just answered it myself lol. I actually have some :) I weightlift, so luckily I eat pretty healthy. Also, people on here talk about staying away from carbs on here, why so? I eat carbs, but its from oats usually..anyways, your suppose to get like 60% of calories from carbs
I am a poster over at a height surgery message board which is an oesteotmy on your legs. one guy who had this surgery twice said l-glutamine on his second surgery and swore he saw a huge difference in soft tissue recovery. It is in essence the same surgery just diff body part. imo the best things to try for quicker recovery
bone broth soup
vitamin k2
calcium
d3
l-glutamine (got this from the story above)
citrulline malate (it supposedly helps increase hgh production, which would be very beneficial to healing)
protein powder
bluberry (would have to be liquidized. I got this from a veteran on the hair loss board who says it helps increase circulation which is essential to healing
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Thanks so much for all the tips. Ive been trying to find what vitamins/foods and supplements I should get for my post op recovery. Want to do everything possible to make it a quicker and better recovery.
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I am a poster over at a height surgery message board which is an oesteotmy on your legs. one guy who had this surgery twice
:o :o :o :o :o
Hardcore!!
For any externals scars, I recommend copper peptides. But you have to use the right kind, in the right concentration. I use it on any pimples to make them heal and I used it on one of dogs when she had a hole in her elbow and had to have it stitched up. It healed beautifully. Some medical wound-healing gels contain it too
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I think a guy when I was in high school had some device screwed into his leg lengthen it. I know he had three metal bars at the top and bottom of his leg amd said he had to turn something all the time.. probably sucked having to walk around with the damn thing all the time.
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I am a poster over at a height surgery message board which is an oesteotmy on your legs. one guy who had this surgery twice said l-glutamine on his second surgery and swore he saw a huge difference in soft tissue recovery. It is in essence the same surgery just diff body part. imo the best things to try for quicker recovery
bone broth soup
vitamin k2
calcium
d3
l-glutamine (got this from the story above)
citrulline malate (it supposedly helps increase hgh production, which would be very beneficial to healing)
protein powder
bluberry (would have to be liquidized. I got this from a veteran on the hair loss board who says it helps increase circulation which is essential to healing
What about arnica for bruising?
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Yes to arnica! Obviously, you should ask your surgeon to make sure it's alright to use, but I love the stuff. I'm not a particularly achy person (I don't generally get sore/beat up), but I have played very aggressive sports in the past, and injuries happen (or at the very least, sore quads that make me walk like I'm 90).
I use an arnica gel (topical) called Arnicare Gel made by Boiron. I get it at Whole Foods.
Good luck with your surgery!
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Does arnica work well for bruising? I got mine at whole foods too before, both the gel and the pellots you take orally. Iwas using it for some achiness on my forearm, but never seemed to do anything
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I never noticed anything from those little pellets either...they just tasted like sugar, and for me did absolutely nothing. I do stand by the topical gel, but more for soreness than bruising. I'm not really a bruiser, so I can't speak to its effectiveness for that specifically. Also, I found that I really have to rub it in, to notice much, and I can't imagine you are going to want to be rubbing your face after surgery.
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Hahah, yea probably not a good idea to rub your face after surgery. I was watching a girls vlog though and she said that after about the one week point its good to do light facial massages to kind of get the blood flowing. Trying to gather as much information to help speed up recovery. I had a few doctors in the past telling me to try the arnica pellets. Seemed like theyre all promoting it lol.
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That's a good thought, maybe try the topical gel down the road when you are still sore, but are able to safely and comfortably touch your face. Another thing is that the topical gel is, well...gel. It's a little sticky so it's not going to be like rubbing a prestige facial cream on your face. I'm sure if you are sore enough, it probably wouldn't matter that gel on your face feels odd and sticky.
Again, good luck with everything!