Can anyone help do i need surgery or nothing

[Picollo30]

Guyz i think i need surgery i talk my family decide it and go orthos to start and to inform my parents. But they say me '' oh rly u dont need surgery'' and my family say look u dont need surgery wtf I go istanbul 6 months later for talk with good maxfax surgeons and orthos.

thinkingme family specially sisters, mother, women in general are always against improvements, trust me (its like cheating nature for them), for you its more health, more high self esteem. if you need surgery and you do, start saving and follow your head.

[thinkingme]

i want to improve but how. it seems imposibble. im not normal class 2 or overbite and overjet. my teeth are different like my jaw. if i get forward my jaw a little i will get long face and underbite. i talk this problem with a family they feel guilty a little. cuz in my child pictures i have crooked teeth and in child i have dentofobia i didnt want to go dentist. and when we go braces its wrong adres and its their fault too. Now i want fix something but i feel so desperate. When i try forgot these jaw problems i get more problems everything get worse. and i dont want to extract 4 premolar.

[thinkingme]

i search and speak a lot of people who get jaw surgery in my country. Some of them expand both palates with expand appliances without surgery and they success at age 20s. Is it possible expand arches without surgery. And i have one root treatment teeth with screw. u can see first premolar right maxilla http://imgim.com/panrom.jpg. Is it possible move this teeth?

[JimmyTheGent]

my ortho said i have protruding teeth which need to come back. another ortho said i have no issue i dont need braces i didnt agree him. And guyz these are not my natural teeth ihave a bad braces journey 1,5 years ago(iwas 17) and 1,5 years ago i have no problem with my jaws and mouth. My teeth are crooked they try straight teeth without pulled or widening arches(they are not ortho i learn it then they are dentist). Only my teeth was protruding but they make all teeth come front. I dont rly want to extract 4 premolar because of internet stories :/.I have no functional problems now. And if i extract teeth i think my palate get narrower my lower jaw get narrower and my smile get narrower to and i will be very sad.

Wait a second.  I thought that bringing teeth "backward" to solve an overbite was the worst thing that can be done?  This is what I had as a kid and now because my genius orthodontist moved my teeth so far back I have a recessed lower jaw, narrow arches, and worst of all sleep apnea.  If you move the teeth backwards you make your airway narrow.  Is what I'm saying true???

[thinkingme]

Wait a second.  I thought that bringing teeth "backward" to solve an overbite was the worst thing that can be done?  This is what I had as a kid and now because my genius orthodontist moved my teeth so far back I have a recessed lower jaw, narrow arches, and worst of all sleep apnea.  If you move the teeth backwards you make your airway narrow.  Is what I'm saying true???

Its not only overbite. i have everything slight but totally combo
in a facebook group john mew said in my post'
'you are right your skull pattern is unusual and that means you need to be careful to select an experienced surgeon. You have a "Bimaxilary Protrusion" but this is a misnomer as your jaws are actually many millimetres too far back not forward and it is your teeth that are too far forward relative to the bone.''and added
''The extraction of your premolars should lead to a nice alignment of the teeth but there is a strong tendency for the teeth to relapse afterwards. This is because Bimaxillary Protrusion is associated with leaving the lips apart about ten millimetres and pushing forward with the tongue when you swallow. Although I was a surgion myself, I prefer to avoid both extractions and surgery. You can have muscle training to teach you to swallow correctly but this is difficult. Also the extractions tend to lengthen the face which can spoil your appearance.

Ideally you should have been treated at the age or around 8 to take your facial bones forward but it is too late for that now. Read up about the Tropic Premise which advises that your lips should be closed at rest with your tongue resting on your palate when you swallow. This would slowly improve most of your problems but is very difficult to achieve constantly. Best of luck Prof John Mew.''
He just want to say u have problem  but dont go surgery or extraction and my methods dont work for adults dramatically. And at age 8 my f**king dentist extract one lower one upper premolar because tooth decay and like 4 year there is no teeth and gap was closed. Than i get ultra crowded teeth.

also i have an appointment tomorrow with one of 3 ortho which i can go with surgery(3 of them have experience surgery with class). Hope he wont say u dont need surgery. In appointments i generally ask what is ur plan for me. Then if ortho didnt mention surgery i ask i feel my lower jaw far back which need surgery. everyone in this thread can see jaw problem in my ceph but which prodecure and moves give me good appearance i dont know. I search this issue for 8 month and active at forums for 6 months and still no idea what surgeons do me or what must i do. I never find a similar face skull problems as mine.

[kjohnt]

Wait a second.  I thought that bringing teeth "backward" to solve an overbite was the worst thing that can be done?  This is what I had as a kid and now because my genius orthodontist moved my teeth so far back I have a recessed lower jaw, narrow arches, and worst of all sleep apnea.  If you move the teeth backwards you make your airway narrow.  Is what I'm saying true???

It depends on the starting point.  If teeth sitting correctly within the arches and then being excessively retroclined to compensate for jaw discrepancy, you are correct.  But in thinkingme's case of overly-proclined teeth due to tongue thrust, they need to come back a bit.

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thinkingme - you're likely going to have to get the extractions as part of a surgical plan.  It's not the end of the world.  Your arches aren't large enough to hold your teeth and, as has been covered within this thread, expansion options aren't really options at all at this point.  When John Mew pointed out that it may make the face look longer, I believe he means when not coupled with surgery, because with surgery, this shouldn't be the case.

To summarize: Incisors are overly proclined to fit because arches are under-projected.  Premolar extractions are needed so the teeth will then fit within the arches properly.  After that point, bimaxillary advancement to bring both the mandible and maxilla forward horizontally.  The anterior-posterior is the simple part.

The more difficult part is addressing your jaws vertically.  Your curve of spee looks exaggerated but may be fine once the teeth are positioned correctly, i.e. it's possibly just a dental issue.  To be honest I'm not sure.  The issue I see with which I'm unfamiliar is it appears your lower incisors' tips will sit higher than the rest of your lower teeth once properly uprighted. 

Also, it appears you have a very flat occlusal plane when compared to Frankfurt plane but I think you head posture is bad in your ceph in that you're leaning back, because your Frankfurt plane is not horizontal, so I think it's fine.  I don't have a protractor on hand to measure.