Jaw surgery is a big decision, and I'm scared I'll chicken out

[LyraM45]

By that reasoning, thinkingme and I should just continue the camouflage route. BTW thinkingme, my chin looks aligned with my lips now but it took a 12mm projection chin implant .  My pre-plastic surgery profile looks almost identical to yours.

So if I were to agree with you Lyra (because I kinda do), no one in my thread told me to avoid jaw surgery for aesthetic reasons, while everyone here is telling her to avoid it.    Maybe it's my skeletal malocclusion that people agree should be fixed with bimax, but camaflouge orthodontics with little to no medical repercussions downgrades that issue back to one of simple aesthetics. I never claimed to be at rock bottom or anything of the sort, so why would people unanimously recommend I go through w/bimax?

It seems like there's a camp of people who do bimax purely for aesthetics, because they have retrognathia and can expect an improvement in profile if nothing else, and then there's everyone else that saves bimax for serious medical reasons as you described.  Am I right in assuming that?   I've also heard bimax is the foundation upon which you can then benefit from plastic surgery.... which to me sounds like a money pit and hell on earth to do SO much surgery and risk so much on a perfectly functional, and maybe not absolutely grotesque looking face. 

It's a tough call and every case is so different.  I am also not a big fan of camo ortho, since they do it for most cases that actually do need the bimax.  But, there are also a lot of cases where it works.  My ortho totally did an extraction no his own kid and made it work, and her outcome is great.  She def made the right choice avoiding surgery.  In general though, I am quite cautious with extraction ortho.  Sometimes it does more harm than good, so no matter what your situation, get second opinions.  I saw about 6 orthos before I went the braces/surgical route.  Only 1 of them talked about *possibly* doing some camo work, and even at that he made it sound like a long shot.  So, it was kind of a blessing in disguise that I wasn't even a candidate to be in the grey area of camo vs. bimax.  Same for my revision, I was so happy it was all unanimous revision diagnosis and not half of the surgeons saying maybe I needed it and half saying not. 

Overall I just tend to be cautious with all of this.  Better safe than sorry.  I've experienced what it's like when it doesn't go right, and you can definitely end up worse off in regret! 

[Rikenen]

TLDR

You won't get a shorter midface through surgery imo. So its pointless.

[RedLips]

But isn't orthognathic surgery necessary to fix a gummy smile? Won't that shorten my midface?

[kjohnt]

But isn't orthognathic surgery necessary to fix a gummy smile? Won't that shorten my midface?

Yes, impaction can reduce gummy smile and shorten the midface.  IIRC, you don't have a gummy smile, so impaction should not be performed.

Edit - just checked your pics and I don't think your face is overly long, i.e. the length of your midface is fine.  It may appear that way to you because your gonial angles are narrowish and you have strong cheekbones.  Do you have any side profile shots?

Edit 2 - Stop with the fillers; I believe that's a bad road to go down.  Fix the foundation / bone structure if needed and leave the soft tissue alone.

[RedLips]

Yes, I have a gummy smile. It's not too drastic, but it's always bothered me and it's definitely noticeable. It's also not helped by the fact that my already-small top lip completely disappears when I smile.

Gummy smile:
http://imgur.com/8KdhCsx
http://imgur.com/Ks70EcO
http://i.imgur.com/AWsZAqD.png

I think my midface is on the long side, and I've measured it many times. It's on the borderline of being too long and automatically unattractive, according to one measurement. I've often measured when I'm too close to the camera (ie. selfies), so it's probably not 100 percent accurate. I guess it's not that terribly long. It just has always bothered me. And when I look for what's "off" about my face, it's easiest to point to my midface.

I got fillers in my lips, cheeks, and chin. Should I not have done that? I always thought it was my soft tissue that was bad.

I also have a big asymmetry in my cheeks. One cheek is much flatter and "droopier" than the other. I hate that and want to fix that so badly but don't know how.


Here are profile views -

Left profile: http://i.imgur.com/dExmoAC.jpg?1
Right profile: http://i.imgur.com/CtjNs4U.jpg

[thinkingme]

Yes, I have a gummy smile. It's not too drastic, but it's always bothered me and it's definitely noticeable. It's also not helped by the fact that my already-small top lip completely disappears when I smile.

Gummy smile:
http://imgur.com/8KdhCsx
http://imgur.com/Ks70EcO
http://i.imgur.com/AWsZAqD.png

I think my midface is on the long side, and I've measured it many times. It's on the borderline of being too long and automatically unattractive, according to one measurement. I've often measured when I'm too close to the camera (ie. selfies), so it's probably not 100 percent accurate. I guess it's not that terribly long. It just has always bothered me. And when I look for what's "off" about my face, it's easiest to point to my midface.

I got fillers in my lips, cheeks, and chin. Should I not have done that? I always thought it was my soft tissue that was bad.

I also have a big asymmetry in my cheeks. One cheek is much flatter and "droopier" than the other. I hate that and want to fix that so badly but don't know how.


Here are profile views -

Left profile: http://i.imgur.com/dExmoAC.jpg?1
Right profile: http://i.imgur.com/CtjNs4U.jpg

Maybe u have little gummy smile but really its not unattractive and not a really reason for double jaw surgery . U have great jawline great both side and front profiles. If i were you(physical not emotional) i probably wont go surgery. I have cheek assymetry in photos 2. But never realize it at videos. I want to ask did u talk with any surgeon? What did they say.

[kjohnt]

Agreed on gummy smile... not bad though.  You could probably get CCW rotation via impaction and it would bring your chin out a bit as well.  Have you ever had ceph x-rays done?

[LyraM45]

I don't think your gummy smile is bad at all.  I actually opted to leave some gummy smile on me for my surgery because 1.) It's part of who I am and I didn't want to lose the old me completely, and 2.) It keeps you youthful.  If you impact too much, you'll have a saggy lip that won't age well with the rest of you. 

[UKMaxfac]

Are you really still going ahead with this?

I'd avoid jaw surgery OP

[kjohnt]

Your jaw is ok. It's very feminine and small and that's how it should be. This ante face BS that is going around isn't right for women.
A strong jaw will make you look older as soon you turn 40. A small, softer jaw is much more beneficial for a feminine look. I know a woman who had double jaw surgery and finally moved it back because she also realized the face becomes longer and the jaw bigger. As we age the jaw naturally becomes bigger, also the nose etc. It makes no sense to give a woman the ante face look as it really isn't what naturally looks feminine.

I really don't get how people can fall for this ante face rubbish that claims it makes a face more attractive if the jaw is pronounced.
I agree that you could do something about your teeth and improve the gummy smile, but don't let yourself be manipulated into this rubbish. You might get functional issues and regret it because the improvement of appearance is really not that great. You might look just different and not better at all.

What really makes a difference in attractiveness is good rhinoplasty, good fillers and if you need it Botox. Not saying you need any of that, just be careful with your jaw area and having high hopes for this procedure. I know how women think and I can imagine what you aim for. You might be very disappointed after having it.
 My father is a doctor and explained to me how circulation in the jaw area is not as good as in the upper part of the face. Whatever you do there might not heal as good as the rest of your face. And it's really fu***d up to have problems with speaking and your mouth. The childlike innocent look is much more beneficial for a woman's face and you have that. Don't mess with it because innocence and a girly face will always beat the beauty of an Angelina Jolie. Maybe one day you'll experience what I mean. Build on looking innocent and girly-- that is where the power of a woman really lies. Plastic Surgeons who promote the Ante Face don't understand that.

I disagree with much of this, Isabella.

[Lazlo]

Isabella is totally right.

[JawKid7]

don't have jaw surgery if you don't need it

[kjohnt]

Isabella is totally right.

No, she isn't.

[UKMaxfac]

No, she isn't.

yeah but you are obsessed with antefaces. Tons of really attractive people have straight or slightly retruded profiles and still look really good.

[Lynnwood]

So its been a while since I visited this forum. I have to comment on this thread because I find it incredibly sad. And Im not blaming OP but jaw surgery is for people with jaw deformities that alter their quality of life which OP does not appear to have. The fact that such a pretty girl(who may or may not be model material, seriously that is very subjective) wants to undergo corrective jaw surgery for reasons that have nothing to do with the functional impact of said surgery or even common aesthetic issues associated with it, makes me feel sad about the society we live in. At the end of the day it is your body and I have no right to tell you what to do, but if it were me I would just enjoy my life and be grateful that I did not have a true issue that corrective jaw surgery is a good treatment for.

Thanks for that...

RedLips,

First, please don't take any of this the wrong way. I really am trying to be helpful. My personality is very forthright and comes off brash at times (edited this in). I'm female, an aging hippie, aged 59 and I just shoot straight from the hip! That said.....

I agree with tdawg because to those of us with a serious issue, you are obviously NOT in need of jaw surgery - AT ALL. You have a self esteem issue. You are already VERY pretty, borderline beautiful, even in your "bad" photo. I think that one is the best because it shows such uniqueness in your features. It's the slight differences that are so fetching. With professional make-up application, you would be Absolutely STUNNING. You even said yourself in a post, something like ..."When I am looking in the mirror, looking for what's wrong with my face..." <---- that's the problem. Get off the mirror. Go enjoy life. You are blessed in the looks department..

Consider that with jaw surgery, as I was told, there will always be residual numbness somewhere. The damage could be very bad. This specific surgery has a lot of risks. Not one or two, there are a couple dozen risks, and all of them are bad.

Consider the story of "Chelie" at the RealSelf.com website forum. It's a long read, but you should read a horror story or two to get an idea... 

Here's Chelie's story:
https://www.realself.com/review/philadelphia-pa-orthognathic-surgery-jaw-surgery-the-biggest-mistake-my-life

Jaw surgery is a last resort - even for those with a very real physical need. Maybe you would rather see a psychotherapist for BDD related self esteem issues, which has no risk of death from general anesthesia, no physical risk at all of numbness, and the long list of complications that could occur.

Actually, I want to suggest a hypnotherapist. I made use of one for self esteem in my 20's and it was fantastic. Hypnosis skips all the "figure out why and try to fix it" and really DOES just reprogram your brain. I think this could be a huge benefit to you. With hypnosis, you would be looking in the mirror and noting all the great things about your face, inside of 90 days.

I have another suggestion I have not seen yet. Make an appointment at a high-end salon that has a professional make up artist. Tell her your concerns about your mid face, and that you want to learn how to do contouring. You can learn in 15 minutes as she applies it on you and explains why. Contouring is highlights and lowlights added to your face in strategic places--under foundation. The results are incredible. BUT, go to a professional, who will work with you and listen to your concerns, and teach you the correct places for YOUR facial structure.

Google:  Makeup contouring before after
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Makeup+contouring+before+after

And YES, you ARE model material already!!  Just the way you are. Watch "Top Model" and look at the girls without makeup. Some of them are downright ugly without makeup! You are far prettier then MOST of them!  THEY KNOW CONTOURING.

You are gorgeous and I only wish I was born with your features. Each and every one.

Surgery is waaaay too drastic, IMHO, it's not for aesthetics, and especially not on such a naturally pretty girl.

OH, on your recent consult where you got the before and after, you were disappointed it was not much different? The reason the before and after composite was so similar, is because you really don't need anything done. They can't move anything too far or you will lose your facial symmetry.

I'm rooting for hypnosis and contouring!  Please chicken out!  If you don't improve your self esteem it is likely NO result will make you feel pretty. Think about that.