Consensus if Lefort 1 Can Change Eye Position?

[eastcoastian1]

This doesn't seem to be talked about much. Is there any clear consensus on if a Lefort 1 will usually help fix orbital asymmetry issues? (one eye higher/lower than the other). I've found only one article which goes into detail about potential changes and that's it: https://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/fulltext/2013/10001/Corrective_Outcomes_after_Bimaxillary_Orthognathic.4.aspx

I have this issue and considering doing a decompression as one eye is slightly bulgier than the other, but wonder if jaw surgery will naturally clear this up anyway if I were to go down that route, or if it's more hit or miss.

[Gadwins]

No it won't, it is maybe just a random effect from soft tissue change. So your eyeline COULD become more straight. The position of your eyes can't be change, how? Le fort 1 is far below from your oribtal rims.

Also I didn't a exact measurments of the eyes of this asia girl, but to me it looks still VERY asymmetrical. She just doesn't look so wasted in the after picture.

[eastcoastian1]

No it won't, it is maybe just a random effect from soft tissue change. So your eyeline COULD become more straight. The position of your eyes can't be change, how? Le fort 1 is far below from your oribtal rims.

Also I didn't a exact measurments of the eyes of this asia girl, but to me it looks still VERY asymmetrical. She just doesn't look so wasted in the after picture.

Wouldn’t the orbital positions have to changed though to have any kind of eyeline change?

[Gadwins]

Sorry, I finally found the word for it: Canthal tilt. This could change slightly by a "good" soft tissure response. That seems to occurs randomly by ZSO.

[kavan]

The article makes clear that the reference is about patients who tilt their heads to balance chin point to midline which leads to false impression as to the extent of the eye asymmetry they have. For example, people who look in the mirror, see they have asymmetry to areas of face below the eyes and then tilt their heads so an imaginary vertical line cuts straight through the centers of their nose, lips and chin point. So, when they get a surgery where they don't have to tilt their head anymore, the eye asymmetry, (which I guess they don't focus on when looking in the mirror), gets less. So, if you want to know IF bimax surgery will make your eyes even, you would have to know IF you tilt your head for parts other than the eyes looking asymmetrical.

Gadwins,

To look at symmetry changes, one has to construct reference lines. Asymmetry is best seen by constructing mirror symmetry from each side of a photo. Example included.

QUIZ (for anybody): Tell me which side she's tilting her head towards and your reasoning as to why.

[eastcoastian1]

The article makes clear that the reference is about patients who tilt their heads to balance chin point to midline which leads to false impression as to the extent of the eye asymmetry they have. For example, people who look in the mirror, see they have asymmetry to areas of face below the eyes and then tilt their heads so an imaginary vertical line cuts straight through the centers of their nose, lips and chin point. So, when they get a surgery where they don't have to tilt their head anymore, the eye asymmetry, (which I guess they don't focus on when looking in the mirror), gets less. So, if you want to know IF bimax surgery will make your eyes even, you would have to know IF you tilt your head for parts other than the eyes looking asymmetrical.

Gadwins,

To look at symmetry changes, one has to construct reference lines. Asymmetry is best seen by constructing mirror symmetry from each side of a photo. Example included.

QUIZ (for anybody): Tell me which side she's tilting her head towards and your reasoning as to why.

I guess I'm a little confused. In the before pic, the patient looks like she's looking straight on, head level, without tilt. In the after, the angle remains the same, but the eyes clearly look like they've repositioned. If it was simply a matter of no longer needing to tilt their head, wouldn't that be clear from the first pic?

[kavan]

I guess I'm a little confused. In the before pic, the patient looks like she's looking straight on, head level, without tilt. In the after, the angle remains the same, but the eyes clearly look like they've repositioned. If it was simply a matter of no longer needing to tilt their head, wouldn't that be clear from the first pic?

There's a clue in the information already given. But if I break down an explanation for you, I won't be able to see who gets the quiz right.

[droplyfe]

The article makes clear that the reference is about patients who tilt their heads to balance chin point to midline which leads to false impression as to the extent of the eye asymmetry they have. For example, people who look in the mirror, see they have asymmetry to areas of face below the eyes and then tilt their heads so an imaginary vertical line cuts straight through the centers of their nose, lips and chin point. So, when they get a surgery where they don't have to tilt their head anymore, the eye asymmetry, (which I guess they don't focus on when looking in the mirror), gets less. So, if you want to know IF bimax surgery will make your eyes even, you would have to know IF you tilt your head for parts other than the eyes looking asymmetrical.

Gadwins,

To look at symmetry changes, one has to construct reference lines. Asymmetry is best seen by constructing mirror symmetry from each side of a photo. Example included.

QUIZ (for anybody): Tell me which side she's tilting her head towards and your reasoning as to why.

The asian woman in the picture is tilting her to the right (as in the right side of her skull is lower in the naturally held position), no? My reasoning is the eye appears to rise after her "canted jaw" is corrected, changing her posture to hold her head without tilting. This would mean that the side in which her eye rose is brought up from the tilted position, hence indicating that it was initially tilted to the right. Is my logic correct?

I think I may actually have this issue myself. In some pictures of myself, I seem no apparent eye asymmetry but in others, it appears as if one eye is dramatically on a different level. My childhood orthodontist actually pointed this asymmetry in my jaws and cheekbones, but did absolutely nothing to correct it (aside from worsening my smile)  .

[kavan]

The asian woman in the picture is tilting her to the right (as in the right side of her skull is lower in the naturally held position), no? My reasoning is the eye appears to rise after her "canted jaw" is corrected, changing her posture to hold her head without tilting. This would mean that the side in which her eye rose is brought up from the tilted position, hence indicating that it was initially tilted to the right. Is my logic correct?

I think I may actually have this issue myself. In some pictures of myself, I seem no apparent eye asymmetry but in others, it appears as if one eye is dramatically on a different level. My childhood orthodontist actually pointed this asymmetry in my jaws and cheekbones, but did absolutely nothing to correct it (aside from worsening my smile)  .

Yes. That's correct. She's tilting to the right. So +1 karma point for that. Aside from the left going up which is going to go up with the head tilted to the right, there's a harder to spot clue to the head tilt. Care to try that one?

[droplyfe]

Yes. That's correct. She's tilting to the right. So +1 karma point for that. Aside from the left going up which is going to go up with the head tilted to the right, there's a harder to spot clue to the head tilt. Care to try that one?

I was thinking something along the lines of ear alignment, but then remembered that those can be asymmetric too and that looking at the relative positions is basically the same as the eye lol.

Was the clue that in the pre-surgery edits, every facial feature on the left mirrored pic is higher up than the right mirrored pics, hence the girl must be tilting her right side down?

If not, then I am unable to figure the second clue   

[kavan]

I was thinking something along the lines of ear alignment, but then remembered that those can be asymmetric too and that looking at the relative positions is basically the same as the eye lol.

Was the clue that in the pre-surgery edits, every facial feature on the left mirrored pic is higher up than the right mirrored pics, hence the girl must be tilting her right side down?

If not, then I am unable to figure the second clue   

You're getting CLOSE but the features such as the lips and nose base are on the same level. Look again at the mirror symmetry photos for something that isn't a feature.