Author Topic: Is it possible...  (Read 15948 times)

ExtractionsRuinFaces

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
  • Karma: 8
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 06:03:55 PM »
not necessarily. as you age you'll lose fat and volume in your face, it won't look totally saggy and old. lack of support totally blows though.

Well it depends on lots of things like how thick your skin is, how much fat you have in face and how you treat your skin but its safe to say the recessed maxilla/mandible or entire midface version of you will always age quicker than the version with no issues (assuming everthing else you do like skin treatment is the same)

Really sucks having those big hollow bits from nose to mouth esp at a young age. Luckily its only visible in strong overhead lighting. I jump whenever I see my reflection in a car window XD


falcao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • Karma: 23
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2013, 01:07:38 AM »
I have the descending tissue issue as well. Im only 18 though, I have deep grooves from nose to mouth in certain lighting, mine comes from lack of frontal projection of my maxilla.

It comes from no cheek support or no support around the mouth. You'll age much quicker than normal with this issue :(

You may have success in resolving this with maxillar advancement. I'm hoping though my plan is more sound as the paranasal grafting should directly help it. But maxillar advancement should work. I have seen before and afters of more mature patients; look at number 9 here: very impressive, if you ask me
http://www.hassansadek.com/index.pl/maxillary_advancement

As to what causes it - it is a combination of factors. Recessed maxilla can be one of it, but subcutaneous fat is also a major factor (even if you're overall lean as I am). The muscle itself can be more prominent in some people as well. I have an article on it. The fat can be removed by micro-liposuction. Do not confuse this with buccal fat removal - this is a completely different fat compartment on the face. The risk may be though assymetries and (in older patients) sagging skin. The key is to remove just enough. I don't think I'm having this though. I think the grafts should work, and the type I will be having - bone and HA - can give you significant augmentation to the point where it may stopped being a problem. At least I hope so.

By the way, I'm exactly the same case - seeing my reflection on a car window is what really freaks me out. In a mirror under a normal light I look just fine. But the car window test I think is a good indication about what should be fixed. If I pass that test after the surgery, I will be overjoyed.

One other thing that should theoretically work is suspension of the tissue. But this doesn't work in practice - I've researched it thoroughly. You will be swollen for months, and then if you're lucky you'll have a good result for few more months. And then the tissue goes back where it was - gravity. Not worth the pain, the trouble or the money. I think the only viable solution is more bone support there (preferably with less fat).
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 01:19:51 AM by falcao »

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2013, 03:32:36 AM »
+1 falcao for a very engaging and interesting post.

Yes, indeed the history of beauty is fascinating and I even thought about it earlier today. I was watching that Sylvester Stallone film from the 90s, CLIFFHANGER,  --it's a TERRIBLE film, but I had some nostalgia having watched it as a kid. What struck me though was how ugly everyone, the supporting characters etc. etc. were in the film. The female lead was Janine Turner who is a natural beauty indeed, but they dressed her up to look quite frumpy. I remembered Sylvester Stallone as young, maybe he's a special case because he's an "action star" but he is one ugly dude --actually quite abnormal looking. But what I remarked to my friend was that wow, these days, for a big budget spectacle film like this everyone has, even the supporting characters have to be much better looking.

I think one of the major shifts that has happened recently, and it's due to a convergence of both the internet but also the ridiculous upsurge in everything been catered to a teen demographic (i.e. the TWILIGHT series, Harry Potter bulls**t, Hunger Games etc. etc., Mortal Instruments blah blah) --I mean ALL of these sorts of entertainment which  saturate the media landscape have the most impossibly beautiful looking young people(kids basically), including the top pop stars (Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus etc. etc.) --it not only inculcates us with a very unreachable standard of beauty, but especially YOUTH. Just like porn has destroyed the sex lives of many people. The internet, the dominance of the youth market, a completely hyperbolic fetishization of celebrity and celebrity culture(intensified by the internet, sites such as gawker, perezhilton, infotainment etc..) are all contributing factors. I mean for a teenager the ultimate dream profession isn't even really to be brilliant or a great athlete or whatnot, it's to be a f**king fashion model!! a job that requires absolutely ZERO skill of any sort.

Another MAJOR shift has been that Men are subject to more scrutiny in the looks department, perhaps even worse than women now. I had a professor who talked once about this gender shift. If you look at films from the 40s or 50s, Hollywood's golden era the women (Veronica Lake, Kim Novak, Ava Gardner, Grace Kelly, Tippi Hedren etc. etc.) in fact they were all impossibly beautiful and impossibly skinny --much more attractive in fact than most actresses today. So female beauty was held at a premium back then for sure --in fact now there's been this sort of reaction against that with women like that GIRLS creator Lena Dunham, and Mindy Kaling and other quite ugly women being given chances to be stars on the small screen --even though of course most Hollywood actresses fit a certain ideal. But for men it's gotten much, much worse.
Both in terms of looks AND age. Have you noticed that it's become quite fashionable and in vogue for women in their 40s and 50s to date guys in their mid-20s? It's not just Demi Moore, it's become like a trend. Could you imagine guys like Spencer Tracy or Humphrey Bogart becoming Hollywood movie stars now? Or even the whole anti-hero trend from the 70s --Dustin Hoffman, Gene Hackman, Robert Deniro, Al Pacino --movies like THE GODFATHER and THE CONVERSATION with Gene Hackman were the highest grossing movies of the year when they came out!!!!These guys were the biggest movie stars of their time --but nowadays because of the ridiculous proliferation of genre movies aimed at a youth market --the "stars" are all either muscled up action types with model like faces, or teenage pretty boys and that's what sets the standard for what people find attractive.

It is perhaps the worst time to be a man ever because not only are men now being subject to the greatest scrutiny in terms of beauty, but feminism(which in theory I'm for) has given women the a more dominant role in terms of being selectors and sexual aggressors and the ones who really have the choosing power. So you tie those two things together and it creates a very emasculated and pathetic state for men.

I first noticed something was extremely f**ked up with our culture back in like 2005 when I noticed that there were all these old middle aged women reading twilight books and fantasizing about f**king robert pattinson --I mean like women in their 50s and 60s!!! And then those ideals trickled down to everything else. I was at the movies the other day and noticed there were two  old women ahead of me, both alone, and both bought tickets to see some s**t called MORTAL INSTRUMENTS and they gushed to the  ticket agent each in turn that they were there to see it for Jonathan Rhys Meyers --I mean it made me want to puke --because these hags must be like mothers and s**t --shouldn't they be fantasizing about Sean Connery or Pierce Brosnan or at the very least people much closer to their own age.

Anyway, this has been a bit of a rant, but I've heard TONS of men talk about this, and it's much, much worse for guys in their late teens and early 20s --and which is why like 70 percent of this forum is filled with guys in that age range who have severe and debilitating BDD and anxiety over their looks and why sites like PUAHATE etc. exist.

It's a really horrible moment in history to be a man.


I just hope you're right and the revolution in genetic engineering etc.. comes sooner than later. I've been looking at a lot of Ray Kurzweil stuff and he for sure says that most of the body modification advances in terms of plastic surgery will have arrived by 2020 --I mean that's not too far away and I won't be that old really so I could still take advantage of it, cause I'll tell you, as I get older (i"m in my mid-30s) I've found I've begun to lose the desire to really even do a lot of the things I once though I wanted --by my early 40s, maybe I'll just have accepted things and not care anymore. That to me is quite depressing....



































« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 03:54:45 AM by Lazlo »

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2013, 09:34:27 PM »
this is a depressing thread.


CK you're still ridiculously young, I mean ridiculously young. You know that the male brain doesn't even fully end up growing till 25!? Your appearance can change for the better I believe within the next 5 years if you do the right things --eat perfectly (i.e. paleo diet, NO sugar, no dope etc..), exercise(weights, cardio, yoga 8-16 hours a week), and take care of your appearance, fashion etc.. By the time you're in your late twenties you could look like an entirely different person. I've seen people who put on dramatic muscle and go on a very healthy diet even radically improve their facial structure --it just happens and the younger you start the more of a difference you'll be able to make. So stop f**king around being depressed and get serious.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2013, 10:12:31 PM by Lazlo »

falcao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • Karma: 23
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2013, 03:40:33 AM »
Damn, lazlo, what happened to your post and your pic. It looks like I'm having a conversation here on my own :)

msmixmaster

  • Private
  • Newbie
  • *****
  • Posts: 36
  • Karma: 8
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2013, 09:46:25 AM »

CK you're still ridiculously young, I mean ridiculously young. You know that the male brain doesn't even fully end up growing till 25!? Your appearance can change for the better I believe within the next 5 years if you do the right things --eat perfectly (i.e. paleo diet, NO sugar, no dope etc..), exercise(weights, cardio, yoga 8-16 hours a week), and take care of your appearance, fashion etc.. By the time you're in your late twenties you could look like an entirely different person. I've seen people who put on dramatic muscle and go on a very healthy diet even radically improve their facial structure --it just happens and the younger you start the more of a difference you'll be able to make. So stop f**king around being depressed and get serious.

I second that.

Also, as a person who was preoccupied and depressed about her looks all her life until she hit her mid 30s - i tell you, in the most sincere manner, I hope you would not take the same path as I did. Life will pass you by as you waste your time surfing the web to compile "evidences" that your life would always suck because of your looks and and to "research" all surgical options to "address your issues." There are many many better things you could be doing with your time. And I have met numerous people who are objectively not that physically attractive but are successful in many ways, professionally, in relationships, etc.

Not to say my life sucks now, but I think I could have at least obtained an additional valuable skill or two had I not wasted hours and hours of my youth preoccupied about things that were outside my control. 

falcao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • Karma: 23
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2013, 04:43:08 PM »
I second that.

Also, as a person who was preoccupied and depressed about her looks all her life until she hit her mid 30s - i tell you, in the most sincere manner, I hope you would not take the same path as I did. Life will pass you by as you waste your time surfing the web to compile "evidences" that your life would always suck because of your looks and and to "research" all surgical options to "address your issues." There are many many better things you could be doing with your time. And I have met numerous people who are objectively not that physically attractive but are successful in many ways, professionally, in relationships, etc.

Not to say my life sucks now, but I think I could have at least obtained an additional valuable skill or two had I not wasted hours and hours of my youth preoccupied about things that were outside my control.

I also agree with you. It is a sensible advice. Use your time wisely because life will pass by you. Learn french or take on horse riding or cooking or whatever instead of "researching" surgical options for hours every day.  Besides, what most people understand by "research" in this sense is spending hours reading bulls**t coming from people who have no idea what they are talking about at least half of the time.

However...It is important to recognize things as they are as well. Let's say you are a really unattractive young individual. I do not get any dates, do not get invited, do not have any options for social life. Ahhh, no, people will tell you, you need to work on your personality. How f**king unfair and cruel. Does that fact that I am unattractive means that I have a personality problem? Well, maybe. But as I said above people believe all sorts of myths and I feel sorry for them. Personality is an abstract construct, nothing tangible. Personality is the sum of the social and psychological opportunities and experiences you've had (I've come with this definition myself as I'm typing :)) . I gave you above the example of the beautiful guy I work with - his "personality" may come off as much better than mine, but I bet he's had at least 10 times more in terms of quantity and more diverse and better quality social experiences than I've had. And being beautiful is what opened that door for him. He may have dated more than 100 people in his life, opening his mind and experiences to things I could never even dream of and polishing his social skills consistently and for years before he got married, while I may have dated, let's say 4. He may have been on 1000 thousands different parties and met 10000 different people there, while I may have been my whole life to, let's say, 12 more or less pathetic ones.

Besides, personality is also the dozens or hundreds of chemicals in your body and how they interact. There is another guy at work who is very nervous, jumpy, anxious, and his voice is high-pitched. He doesn't have any facial hair, looks a bit effeminate and displays a bit of erratic behaviour. Needless to say, people may not like to be much around him socially and say he has a "weird personality". Sure. Or maybe, his hormones are all f**ked up, he has low testosterone, excess estrogen and I don't know what else (the list of our hormones may be pages long). And he can't help it behaving like that. And maybe is unaware of the need to seek help. I find it even hard to go and get a coffee with him sometimes, let alone spend more time. But deep down, I know it's not his personality. 

It's important to be objective and open minded with these things. It's easy to judge people, and tell unattractive people "don't be depressed, go out there and live your life". But that's also patronizing and I would add cruel. As if it hadn't occurred to them to do that. As if they are stupid apart from unattractive. It's all about the opportunities you get. And much of it is due to your genes,  anatomy and biology. Be that your looks, your hormones or the combination of both, as they interact in a complex way, as I also explained above. Recognizing that is a step towards building a better world. Being judgmental and closed minded is the norm, unfortunately, because of all the myths society (read the church or whatever) has been feeding you with for centuries. Starting from the one that beauty comes from the inside.

falcao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • Karma: 23
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2013, 06:05:03 PM »
Yeah, it's really interesting. Motivations are really complex...I have a theory about myself, but it borders on Freudian psychology :) I was a gorgeous kid with high above-average intelligence and very popular. Then in adolescence I lost all that. Sort of like Haley Joel Osment's story, lol, but with the worst acne and underweight.  Anyway, I think I've been trying to fill that void ever since. In the most tender years of my life, up to the age of 12, I constantly kept hearing how beautiful and brilliant I am. Then rejection, isolation and depression followed...

falcao

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 226
  • Karma: 23
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2013, 06:22:24 PM »
Yes. Only in my case and unlike you, from all the prettiest girls having a crush on me, to not being able to get a single date at the age when you're actually supposed to start dating.

You see, we may have a rational explanation for our motivations. With the risk of oversimplifying, of course.

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Is it possible...
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2013, 08:55:05 PM »
Yeah im going through a pretty huge loser phase in my life right now, despite my pedigree but i know a lot of successful guYs from the age of 19 to 45. As ms said the common denominator between them all i mean the relatively unattractive ones is that theyre all EXXTREMELY passionate and skilled at something. It makes people want to be around them and makes them attractive. The ones who dont have serious girlfriends crush a lot of p*ssy. But you know what? Highly passionate skilled interesting people are way way way rarer than even good looking people.