Hydroxyapatite binds to skin?

[Optimistic]

I've read some people state that HA when applied to bone will also somehow attach itself to the flesh/skin/whatever it's called, and that this can have a positive effect on ageing as it would prevent sagging. Can anyone confirm if there's any merit to this? It's certainly not something I've ever read before in a study, nor have I seen it discussed before outside of this particular thread on a jaw surgery forum (doctors were also posting and no correction was made).

[Lazlo]

I've read some people state that HA when applied to bone will also somehow attach itself to the flesh/skin/whatever it's called, and that this can have a positive effect on ageing as it would prevent sagging. Can anyone confirm if there's any merit to this? It's certainly not something I've ever read before in a study, nor have I seen it discussed before outside of this particular thread on a jaw surgery forum (doctors were also posting and no correction was made).

at least cite some sources, never heard of this...you have to be careful a lot of times when people talk about HA they're talking about injections, not the stuff for bone augmentation

[Lazlo]

what happened to all those consults with coceancig you were supposed to have player?

[Modigliani]

at least cite some sources, never heard of this...you have to be careful a lot of times when people talk about HA they're talking about injections, not the stuff for bone augmentation

Yeah, I've noticed that it can often get confused with the injectable, Radiesse.

[Lord-of-the-Cartilage]

I assume he means the solid HA used in maxfac surgery, the variant used for fillers would mostly dissolve and therefore not have a long term impact on how someone's soft tissue ages.

He probably heard this from a surgeon who wants to up the surgical fee.

[Optimistic]

at least cite some sources, never heard of this...you have to be careful a lot of times when people talk about HA they're talking about injections, not the stuff for bone augmentation

I'll dig it up tonight and post it here

[Optimistic]

what happened to all those consults with coceancig you were supposed to have player?

I got screwed over by my ortho somewhat.

We were supposed to talk about my options regarding my cant as well as a few other things, and be given a referral to a surgeon. In the end all he did was hand me some no-name surgeon's business card after adjusting my braces. I'm starting to think there's something holding him back from writing an actual referral.

[PloskoPlus]

I got screwed over by my ortho somewhat.

We were supposed to talk about my options regarding my cant as well as a few other things, and be given a referral to a surgeon. In the end all he did was hand me some no-name surgeon's business card after adjusting my braces. I'm starting to think there's something holding him back from writing an actual referral.

coceancig has a dentist onsite (in Newcastle for certain) who can write a referral on the spot.  Also they have a CT  scan machine and will bulk bill the scan.

[sean89]

I have quite a narrow jaw so am interested in the potential of hydroxy along the jawline (I know it has a multitude of uses). But when I spoke to a surgeon today, he pretty much said that, if you want a wider jaw, you have two options: option A - orthognathic surgery - but the difference to the width of the face is negligible. Or option B - jaw implants - the only thing that will give you a chiselled jawline.

His reason for being dismissive about hydroxy was that it could crumble and implants actually provided more stability as well as definition. I just wonder though how much of his opinion was coloured by the technical difficulty of applying the hydroxy to the jawline (which he mentioned), and so rather than go through the ballache of applying it when the results are quite subtle, he'd rather use implants. That's me just speculating though. He was also dismissive about fat transfer.

Hopefully, distraction of the ramus (whatever it is) can be developed in the future to produce solid results otherwise, I think there's few options available to augment the jawline, but I'm still 50/50 about the use of hydroxyapatite.

I'm probably not as well read as others on the subject so please let me know if I've forgotten any other options to enhance the jawline (not including the chin).

[Tiny]

It's a shame custom titanium implants are so $$$$$.  In a few years it will come down, because the 3D printing technology will be better/used more often

[Optimistic]

Where I read it: http://www.makemeheal.com/answers/viewQuestion.do?qid=4322

Interestingly enough a New Zealand website claims that the granules don't get bone reabsorption, only HA implants as the paste is non-porous.

http://www.dermnetnz.org/procedures/hydroxyapatite.html

Is the soft-tissue ingrowth possibly referring to what the person in the first link was talking about?

[Optimistic]

I have quite a narrow jaw so am interested in the potential of hydroxy along the jawline (I know it has a multitude of uses). But when I spoke to a surgeon today, he pretty much said that, if you want a wider jaw, you have two options: option A - orthognathic surgery - but the difference to the width of the face is negligible. Or option B - jaw implants - the only thing that will give you a chiselled jawline.

His reason for being dismissive about hydroxy was that it could crumble and implants actually provided more stability as well as definition. I just wonder though how much of his opinion was coloured by the technical difficulty of applying the hydroxy to the jawline (which he mentioned), and so rather than go through the ballache of applying it when the results are quite subtle, he'd rather use implants. That's me just speculating though. He was also dismissive about fat transfer.

Hopefully, distraction of the ramus (whatever it is) can be developed in the future to produce solid results otherwise, I think there's few options available to augment the jawline, but I'm still 50/50 about the use of hydroxyapatite.

I'm probably not as well read as others on the subject so please let me know if I've forgotten any other options to enhance the jawline (not including the chin).

I think DO on the ramus can't really be developed. We discussed this in another thread. If you are lengthening the rami you'll be dropping the jaw. So how are your teeth supposed to meet then?

As far as I can tell the best options for bad jaw and rami would be:

IVRO if you have an open bite. This can improve gonial angles quite a bit and give a squarer jawline.

Or Implant.

Compare implant results and it's clear that in anything above a minor case the implants give significantly better aesthetic results. HA paste won't give you the projection you seem to need or want.

[Optimistic]

It's a shame custom titanium implants are so $$$$$.  In a few years it will come down, because the 3D printing technology will be better/used more often

So is it the printing that makes them so expensive? The titanium? Or a combination of the two?

Perhaps in the future we'll be using our home 3d printers to create our own jaw implants 

[sean89]

Titanium implants are expensive but the price that I've heard for them is a drop in the ocean next to the price paid for orthognathic surgery in the U.S which is, imo, outrageous.

[Optimistic]

Titanium implants are expensive but the price that I've heard for them is a drop in the ocean next to the price paid for orthognathic surgery in the U.S which is, imo, outrageous.

Got any rough figures to give? I've only been told they're expensive, never an exact price.