Author Topic: I had modified lefort iii  (Read 134112 times)

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #165 on: May 20, 2015, 11:23:15 AM »
cheekbones on their own aren't gonna make or break an attractive face. So many other factors and it's the overall relationship of parts that makes the difference. For example, short upper lip, eye-width, etc. are important on a man, maybe even more important than cheekbones. And yes, many very attractive men have negative orbits.

molestrip

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: 40
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #166 on: May 20, 2015, 12:41:57 PM »
Negative vectors are normal in Asians too, no? Sigh.. I lose on the lip front too. Maybe I'll fix that. Come to think of it, any rotation of the maxilla has to have a downfracture.

Rico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Karma: 10
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #167 on: May 20, 2015, 01:48:12 PM »
cheekbones on their own aren't gonna make or break an attractive face. So many other factors and it's the overall relationship of parts that makes the difference. For example, short upper lip, eye-width, etc. are important on a man, maybe even more important than cheekbones. And yes, many very attractive men have negative orbits.

Probably true. I have lack of cheek prominenece on one side due to overlooked fracture and noone noticed this :)
However to be honest, there is little loss of attractiveness / charackter of the face ..but not very visible - this is the point

I think all taking together is important.. no part is less or more important

meepmeepmeep

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 84
  • Karma: 10
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #168 on: May 20, 2015, 05:36:05 PM »
I am almost certain he doesn't work with implants. He stated he doesn't like them at all to me in person.

And no, multi-segment lefort ii or iii is not possible way to unstable. Theoretically anything is possible, and I guess no harm in asking.

not that everyone is addressing my concerns, but i am a woman. so cheek bone projection is important to me.

awesome, lazlo. thanks for the heads up on the implants. of course, i agree they aren't ideal either. did dr. sinn tell you if he does any osteotomies that address forehead, supraorbital def or jaw angles?

i have had a surgeon suggest a multi-segmented high lefort i with ccw rotation. he said he would do the cuts just below the infraorbital foramen. if this is possible, then it seems that a lefort ii or iii could also be possible but possibly a bit riskier. i will ask when i see him.

from what i gather, earl didn't have any ccw rotation of the jaws by dr. sinn. but is it possible to ccw rotate/bsso during a lefort ii or iii the same way as one would with a lefort i/bsso?

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #169 on: May 20, 2015, 06:55:19 PM »
not that everyone is addressing my concerns, but i am a woman. so cheek bone projection is important to me.

awesome, lazlo. thanks for the heads up on the implants. of course, i agree they aren't ideal either. did dr. sinn tell you if he does any osteotomies that address forehead, supraorbital def or jaw angles?

i have had a surgeon suggest a multi-segmented high lefort i with ccw rotation. he said he would do the cuts just below the infraorbital foramen. if this is possible, then it seems that a lefort ii or iii could also be possible but possibly a bit riskier. i will ask when i see him.

from what i gather, earl didn't have any ccw rotation of the jaws by dr. sinn. but is it possible to ccw rotate/bsso during a lefort ii or iii the same way as one would with a lefort i/bsso?


hi, yes Dr. Sinn recommended a high, multi-segment lefort for me as well.

molestrip

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: 40
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #170 on: May 21, 2015, 12:14:15 PM »
I saw my eye doc today for a regular checkup and asked him about this. He told me my eyes are very average for my age based on what he sees in his practice. He said he sees some patients with dryness and eyelid closure problems after having plastic surgery to try and reverse the effects of aging though. His advice was that if I wanted I could do implants but that I should wait till I'm older. His thought was that the higher LeForts are very risky. He said they have a lot of trouble treating people with defects around the orbits and he couldn't fathom why someone would intentionally do that to themselves. Nothing new here earl heard the same in his research, just wanted to add the anecdote.

Somehow, despite my issues I still see 20/20. The machine reports small aberrations. I think Dr Park's book claimed that facial deformities alter the eye socket which changes the shape of the eye and causes vision problems. What's the story for the rest of you? Do you need glasses to see well?

Rate of dentofacial deformities is 20% btw. Midface deficiency is considered a variant of normal, that is present in the normal population without deformity. I don't know the rate but I think it's not rare. Between the two, I'd still venture my 33% figure is in the right ballpark. I see many guys around without prominent cheekbones and it looks good. I haven't seen a case yet where it detracts. I've seen some faces without cheekbones at all, as in less than flat, and that looks bad. The assistant at the office today had a narrow arch, said they advised surgery for her too, and deficient cheekbones in her 40s. Somehow she has less sagging than me. Maybe it's possible to control with products? Or she's using makeup. She was still attractive but I wouldn't say hot. Just kind of average.

terry947

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: 15
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #171 on: May 21, 2015, 08:50:57 PM »
im not saying all men need to have prominent cheekbones. They don't have to be huge, just forward enough to support the eyes properly. A buddy of mine who is very good looking has flat cheekbones but they go past the bottom of his eyes, so he has good eye support and his zygos dont curve into his face if that makes sense. They're kind of angles outwards. IMO this is the most important part of male aesthetics. You can have flat frontal cheekbones but side/zygos matter more. Just my opinion though. ID that that over a strong jaw any day.

molestrip

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: 40
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #172 on: May 21, 2015, 08:56:10 PM »
Quote
you can move the back of the maxilla up in a CW rotation, which is also the preferred way to close an open bite.

You mean for a single jaw surgery? Yeah, one of the local surgeons tried that on me. That's what they said 15 years ago too. They like it because it's less invasive and more stable. That doesn't make it the right procedure. You fix the open bite but create new problems. Isn't that what you had jawbone? I know one other person who had it and she's now on her 2nd revision. Occlusal plane ends up very high, you don't fix the long face, increases load on TMJ, reduces space in nasal cavity contributing to nasal resistance, etc. Double jaw surgery w/CCW rotation is the way to go. It's riskier relapse-wise but you end up in the right spot even if you end up needing revision. Only most people in that position also need a 3-piece LeFort and, combined, that's one of the riskiest procedures they can do (that's considered stable enough to do).

@terry947 I agree with your position. Positive vector is ideal, negative vector is ok but if the eyes are bugging out, that's a problem. My mom and her sister both have bug eyes, fortunately I avoided that fate. Also, people with bug eyes often have deficient orbital rims. I tried pressing under my mom's eye once and there's nothing there!

Rico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Karma: 10
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #173 on: May 24, 2015, 04:09:15 PM »
Earl: is CAS helpful in LF3 ?  CAS -computer assisted surgery.
What you think about that ? What you know ?  Have you ever asked a surgeon about that ?

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #174 on: May 24, 2015, 04:57:33 PM »
LOL I have more karma than anyone. I rock.

Optimistic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
  • Karma: 18
  • Gender: Male
  • I am class I
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #175 on: May 24, 2015, 09:06:07 PM »
Hi Earl, how is your sensation post-op? Have you regained full sensation? Did Sinn mention this much to you?

01/10/14 - Last night I spilt spaghetti sauce on my chin for the very first time in my life and cried.

molestrip

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: 40
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #176 on: May 24, 2015, 09:23:38 PM »
LOL I have more karma than anyone. I rock.

And humble too! That's ok, you've earned it. Now that you mention it, you do have a lot of posts.

Rico

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 882
  • Karma: 10
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #177 on: May 30, 2015, 03:56:57 AM »
Earl just post some f**king decent pictures... jesus christ

where?

i tried to get more info from him. if Dr Sinn uses navigation , etc. What I noticed, he has problem with eyes after surgery..he wrote something about it. he barely answer so I do not know how it really is

Mark505

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • Karma: 4
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #178 on: May 30, 2015, 04:18:55 AM »
where?
nowhere.

Quote
i tried to get more info from him. if Dr Sinn uses navigation , etc. What I noticed, he has problem with eyes after surgery..he wrote something about it. he barely answer so I do not know how it really is

What?!

PloskoPlus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3044
  • Karma: 140
Re: I had modified lefort iii
« Reply #179 on: May 30, 2015, 04:57:20 AM »
nowhere.

What?!
English is not Rico's first language.  Earl's "eye problems" are aesthetic and were not caused by surgery.  While the surgery helped, he still thinks they are too prominent.