i can't figure out what is not in balance

[Lazlo]

Also if you compare yourself to celebrities, remember that they're hotter because they are celebrities, society told us that they are hot/perfect/or whatever.

that's absolutely true. Brooklyn Beckham is NOT a particularly attractive dude if you see him in regular photos. But he's in f**king burberry modelling campaigns and is getting like crazy tang from the hottest chicks. Why? Cause his name is Brooklyn Beckham. It's called the "boyband effect." Put any dude in a music video with teenage girls crying and chasing them and then real girls are gonna act the same way. Truth. Tons of these people are average and less so. 

[aristidine]

thanks to all the replies so far, truly.

i'm surprised that you guys have said i look fine, i was really afraid to put that photo up. maybe the photo isn't really illustrative of what i'm describing. i wish my cell camera would work so i could take a more edifying photo.

i'm still really unhappy with the things i'm talking about. at 28, i don't want to look toothless when i speak. i just don't. it doesn't look good and lowers my confidence level. i don't see others have this, everyone's teeth show when they speak and i've had boyfriends tell me that it is definitely noticeable. the thing is i feel fine about my other features, and this toothless look significantly detracts from my appearance, as far as the "point system" goes. wherever i am on that scale, i lose like 2 points when i open my mouth, lol.

as someone suggested here, i'm going to start out with an orthodontist. since braces seem to have created this problem, maybe they can improve it. i have an appointment scheduled in a week, and this ortho seems really promising. free 1 hr. consultation and they'll take xrays, and they work with a good maxillofacial surgeon so if it's outside the scope of the ortho, he will refer me. it's a good start i think.

@Lazlo, my upper teeth are about 50% obscured when i smile, actually. don't know what the point of getting my teeth straightened when i was a kid was, if it had the effect of hiding the visibility of my teeth. so they're straight now, but are completely hidden from view. great.

[aristidine]

you know, it was just about 15 years ago and i honestly don't remember. i always had a class I bite, but my teeth were pretty crooked. all that i do remember is that i had a "vampire tooth". i know that i got it done at kaiser so i suppose i could contact them to retrieve those records. maybe it would be enlightening. *edit* just called kaiser, all records have been destroyed.

i remember when i got them taken off, though, as if it was yesterday, because of how upset i was. i remember going to school not excited but so downtrodden. they gave me a "before and after" foldout booklet thing - on one side was my before and the other my after. half my upper teeth were hidden, my nose looked bulbous because it slightly tipped down when smiling, and i got the toothless mouth. in the before, while my teeth were crooked, i had a far superior smile and my nose was straight when smiling. i have no idea what happened and i remember trying to make sense of what the benefit to me was to get my teeth straightened only to not be able to show them off. i was genuinely confused about that.

the plastic surgeon seemed to think that the growth of both upper and lower jaws was retarded at some point.

[Lazlo]

I had a big toothy smile before braces and extractions too.
I f**king hate orthodontists

Jesus you too? f**k I share your pain bro. Motherf**kers. Why the f**k do they do this?

[aristidine]

yeah man, i would take my former crooked teeth over my "improved" look any f**king day.
 

[terry947]

i wish i never had brace. f**ked me up big time, luckly i had no extractions but it lengthened my face. I only had it for 1.5 years.

[Lazlo]

i wish i never had brace. f**ked me up big time, luckly i had no extractions but it lengthened my face. I only had it for 1.5 years.

yeah but that can be corrected in surgery, you'll be fine trust me. You probably just need regular bi-max --I'd go with Camanetti if I were you. It'll be basically free too.

[Lazlo]

Well to be fair, i had braces when i was still growing, perhaps my genetic pattern would lead me to having 0 incisor show anyway.. cant really blame ortho when i dont really understand the process.

No, in your case, it was the bicuspid extractions for sure. Sinn explained to me that the molars can't move cause they have three or four roots, so what happens is the dips**t orthos (which are basically most of them) retract all the teeth, this leads to major loss of support for the nose making it look bigger and less tooth show. All these problems can be addressd through CCW and bi-max but the results would have been better if you still had your bicuspids which prop up your midface. It's really a f**king "catastrophe" as this surgeon told me. Dude if you'r in England I would so go for having your ortho work overseen by Mike Mew in prep for sugery. that is the way to go.

[terry947]

@lazlo- I'd love to go to Camanetti but he doesn't go CCW rotation, which I need. My occlusion angle is slightly steep and if he just moved everything on the same angle it'd make my face look longer. He wasn't even open to doing a CCW rotation, sucks. He also wants to do a multi segment Lefort. f**k that.

 I still haven't visited the other top guys here so we'll see what they say.

[jesterofmalice]

What is the solution? Lots of talk of orthos doing more harm than good, pulling teeth out etc etc.
If someone wants their bite improved, what should they do?
Is it about finding a special sort of ortho? Maybe a functional orthodontist?

[jesterofmalice]

^ see if they specialized in dentofacial orthopedics/ orthotropics

orthotropics is only for children, though?

[baldguy83]

I had two premolars extracted from my lower jaw in preparaton for a BSSO (the front teeth were slanted way forward, now they are straight again after being pulled back). Should I be worried about my face collapsing as described above, or does that only apply to extractions from the upper jaw?

Sorry if this is a very stupid question, I'm still very new to all this

[jesterofmalice]

Right, and if you have an ortho that will work with you- they'll expand as much as they can/your body will allow and then go from there.

Again, adult expansion is new stuff but, it can work to an extent (or more) and all the adults I know have had successful  expansion without the need for pulling teeth; myself included.

Interesting.
Thanks.
I'm still not sure what I want to do. When I look at myself, I feel as though my jaws are a little recesed, and maybe a little narrow, too.
I've seen 2 orthos (just for quick consultations to discuss braces) and they both said that my case wasn't really bad enouogh to warrant surgery.
But I don't just want straight teeth. I want my face/cheeks to get proper support, and i'm not sure that just fixing my bite with braces will be enough to help with that (the apparent 'brace lift' effect for example).
 My head is constantly spinning with it all, lol.

[baldguy83]

Your upper preomolars are still intact?

Yup, the rest of my teeth are all there, including the wisdom teeth. Only lacking the two foremost premolars in the lower jaw. The front arch has been pushed back a fair bit, and the molars are being pulled forward to close the gap.

[jesterofmalice]

^ still have all your permanent teeth?

If so, braces with an ortho that plans your treatment out that isn't cookie cutter can also do wonders.  Braces are only bad when they're pulled back with no consideration to the entire face.  Widening your smile or tipping the teeth helps with tooth show and filling out the mouth which will then give you more support.

If you've extracted one or more teeth, going the braces route and trying to expand will be very tough... but, if you have the time and money- give it a try.  You can technically reopen the gaps but, again- this will take you up to 2 years or maybe even more.

Embarrassingly, I just had to count my teeth in the mirror as I really can't remember how many teeth I had pulled, and whether they were my adult teeth or not! I appear to have 30 teeth.
I kind of remember getting one of the vampire teeth pulled out (one that was 2 to the left of my left upper 'middle' tooth) because it was growing in a weird place due to crowding.
I also must have had maybe a molar or a canine pulled out at some point, but I can't remember when or why!

If you've extracted one or more teeth, going the braces route and trying to expand will be very tough... but, if you have the time and money- give it a try.  You can technically reopen the gaps but, again- this will take you up to 2 years or maybe even more.

So based on that, are you saying that jaw surgery would be the only solution?(I understand that you're not an expert, but I want your opinion, so don't worry about giving medical advice!