i can't figure out what is not in balance

[jesterofmalice]

So we're supposed to have 32 teeth, but apparently that includes the 4 wisdom teeth?! If so, i'm confused.
I can count 30, I don't have any wisdom teeth (never came through). I've had at least one adult tooth removed.
How does that add up?! lol

[Lazlo]

I had 4 premolars out, that is what made my midface sag downwards? Where is the evidence for this?
So if I was to get my planned surgery - bimax with cw- would that prop it up? Or is it only CCW that would help? I can't get CCW cos my face is short as f**k already

any advancement would prop up your face properly you don't necessarily need ccw. Buddy, you want evidence? Just type "bicuspid extractions and face" and you welcome to the litany of horror stories of how it destroys faces. I'm actually lucky I didn't have mine done as a kid like you, but my whole face has drooped down since the spaces were closed. I don't mind your challenging attitude it's healthy, but there's also a time to shut up and listen tumerican.

[Lazlo]

@lazlo- I'd love to go to Camanetti but he doesn't go CCW rotation, which I need. My occlusion angle is slightly steep and if he just moved everything on the same angle it'd make my face look longer. He wasn't even open to doing a CCW rotation, sucks. He also wants to do a multi segment Lefort. f**k that.

 I still haven't visited the other top guys here so we'll see what they say.

oh f**k him then. i don't think tocchio does it. Cameron Clokie is not great. Dr. Stephen Ho does it as well as other procedures --definitely get a consult with him.

What I'm thinking in fact is that you get CCW here in canada, then you can go to the states for the orbital rim advancement --it can't be done at the same time as bimax anyway and you'll need  10 months wait between operations.

[aristidine]

i think i've read in a couple of places that jaw surgery is significantly cheaper in canada. is there truth to this? if so, why is that the case?

[Lazlo]

i think i've read in a couple of places that jaw surgery is significantly cheaper in canada. is there truth to this? if so, why is that the case?

it is probably cheaper if you paid for it out of pocket but it is free for us canadians. They only charge for the genioplasty which plus some administrative fee comes to 2-4 grand total. That;s all you pay (oh and your ortho work). For a foreigner i don't know probably same price as an average doc in america like 20-40 thousand i'd estimate.

[aristidine]

it's probably closer to $40k for bimax huh.
this thread is awesome. i've learned a lot so far.

[Lazlo]

it's probably closer to $40k for bimax huh.
this thread is awesome. i've learned a lot so far.

yeah i'm pretty awesome   ;  )

[baldguy83]

Oh ok, and they made the top and bottom fit together with the missing premolars on bottom?

Not yet, the BSSO has to take place first, then the occlusion will be fixed via orthodontics.

[terry947]

Thanks for the advice lazlo I'll check them out. It'd be such a blessing if I find someone here in Toronto who's on the same page. Saving $60k on jaw surgery out of country would be amazing since I'd be paying for this out of pocket.

[Lazlo]

Thanks for the advice lazlo I'll check them out. It'd be such a blessing if I find someone here in Toronto who's on the same page. Saving $60k on jaw surgery out of country would be amazing since I'd be paying for this out of pocket.

Dr. Stephen Ho is very advanced and also is a big advocate of CCW. One of the program writers on 3-D imaging. Make sure you mention the fact you want an alar cinch to keep the nose slim.

[terry947]

Do you think it's be good to get surgical planning/advice from other top surgeons like a&g or the dude in Spain thay langpam went to and share it with a surgeon I find here?

Because Ive so far been to 10 orthodontist appointment and every single one of them has a different plan of action. It's kind of f**king scary. Like how do you know who's right. One recommends extractions. One recommends no JS. One recommends tads with JS etc etc.

[Lazlo]

Do you think it's be good to get surgical planning/advice from other top surgeons like a&g or the dude in Spain thay langpam went to and share it with a surgeon I find here?

Because Ive so far been to 10 orthodontist appointment and every single one of them has a different plan of action. It's kind of f**king scary. Like how do you know who's right. One recommends extractions. One recommends no JS. One recommends tads with JS etc etc.

yes. and get Arnett and Gunson to instruct the ortho with what to do. Actually I'll tell you who to go to if you'r in ontario. Wish I went to this guy.

Here you go, he's smart, has studied with aren't, won't do extractions, damon braces actually do widen the arch slightly. f**k i wish i had found him instead.

http://www.drgordieorgan.com/damon-system.php

[Lazlo]

dude you can thank me now for the rest of your life.

[terry947]

 Thanks man!!!Lmao I know I cant.

Im actaully located west end Toronto/mississauga area. So it should be no problem.

[aristidine]

figured out what my problem is.

i have a short face growth pattern. this is why my teeth don't show and my face looks "squashed". all these years i've been holding my lower jaw out with effort, to look more balanced. this is why you guys thought my chin looked fine in that photo. if i relax my face i look comical. like someone took my face and squashed it together. that "square" look that i've read people with maxillomandibular deficiency have.

i think i found my surgeon. he's based in san francisco. thankfully i have friends in the bay area and will be able to stay with them for a few days after the srugery. the awesome thing is i won't have to pay insane hospital fees because the hospital has different rates for patients undergoing cosmetic procedures. i thought i was looking at thousands for hospital fees alone, turns out it'll be $900. here's to a year of saving for this thing.