how common is just bsso?

[needagameplan]

See, here's what I don't understand:

Overbite / mouth breathing / tongue on bottom palate is like a whole syndrome, even effects our spinal posture.

If I jut my lower jaw I look fine, but my upper palate is small because my orthodontist made it like that to camouflage my recessed mandible. So when I jut my lower jaw, my lower teeth are advanced beyond my upper teeth now (underbite).

I think I have minor mouth-breathing syndrome and tended to breathe through my nose during the day, but kinda had mild allergies on and off as a teenager or something.

Is it possible that I could just do palate expansion and bsso? This would greatly improve my smile (narrow palate) and profile.

It seems like LF1 might be a little excessive in my case and might cause negative aesthetic results?

Might as well stick with the guaranteed success: bsso. Which would probably also require palate expansion. What do you think?

The following 4 pics show jutting and non-jutting

It looks like my lower jaw needs to rotate up a bit more. Could palate expansion help with that, or does upper jaw need to be shortened via LF1?

It kinda seems to me like maybe if I just expand my palate and undo what the orthodontist is, then I could just get braces and reach a better occlusion where the lower jaw can rotate upwards a bit more, and possibly avoid surgery. like this: http://postimg.org/image/uq39ce6pl/16e3f2af/

http://postimg.org/gallery/bo33c90a/0b981f1f/

[Tom2]

You are me 20 years ago.

Jutting jaw forward, overbite, narrow upper jaw.    Yea.  That was my life.

I have Segmental LF1 and BSSO.       

I waited until I was much older to get the surgery.  I can tell you time will only make your problems worse.

That said, these are not small surgeries so know the risks.

[needagameplan]

i have tmj, postural issues that are probably at least slightly related, muscle tension pain in my face/neck. it sucks man.

i think if i held off on my ortho treatment my lower jaw was going to grow in to fill the space.

then again, i had lower tongue posture before I got invisalign so it's possible that invisalign actually improved my tongue posture.

[molestrip]

LeFort advancements often look somewhat out of place because they are. The rest of your face should have grown forward with it. Avoiding the LF1 solves the aesthetic problem but leaves the functional one. It's a s**tty choice but a balance needs to be found.

[needagameplan]

So depressing. To think, someone could have told me to breathe through my mouth at 15 and I would have had excellent facial development...

The worst part is the rest of  my body (spine) has grown to accommodate this f**ked up facial growth. There's really no fixing everything now...


Oh well. All I can do about is go see a maxfac and bring up my concerns about sleep apnea.

[molestrip]

Don't beat yourself up too much. 60% of jaw growth is done by 5, 80% by 12, and the rest by ~20. The risk factors were likely already in place by that point, you were screwed. In my case maybe because I had a closed bite and it didn't open up until later, which can only be explained by mouth breathing (I went to college 2 years early, dorms were a b*tch on my allergies).

If you insist on blaming anyone, then blame your mother. First, for having the genetic risk factors placing you in the lucky 1/3 of the population. Second, for not breast feeding you. Literally the breast, no breast milk in a bottle (my wife and I are guilty as charged here for our first). Third, for not taking you to the orthodontist at the recommended age of 7 and again at 12. Last, and most importantly, for not noticing your poor nose breathing and addressing it while you were young. It's your parents responsibility to take care of you and that means when something is wrong, they fix it. Either through anti-histamines, flonase, or allergy shots. I'm a little peeved because my mom knew I had allergies and did allergy shots for herself and my brother. It didn't help her but she gave up quickly. She didn't want to put in the hour a week for the treatments (and probably to save the money). Arg!!

So basically your parents f**ked up and you're paying the price now. Maybe your parents never noticed, that's ok. We're all human I just don't think laziness and cheapness are good excuses.

[Lazlo]

So depressing. To think, someone could have told me to breathe through my mouth at 15 and I would have had excellent facial development...

The worst part is the rest of  my body (spine) has grown to accommodate this f**ked up facial growth. There's really no fixing everything now...


Oh well. All I can do about is go see a maxfac and bring up my concerns about sleep apnea.

Anything save death can potentially be "fixed" (and there are people working on the death problem as we speak) so don't lose hope. Never lose hope. Anything is possible to the willing mind. Aggressive two hour a day Ashtanga Yoga starting with the primary series can solve any postural and physical problems, will even help with your face. Look up Ashtanga yoga primary series and begin today, go as far as you can get (most people can do more than sun salutations at first, and for months), keep working on the last pose you can get to and continue.

Even better go to any yoga classes and start doing the ashtanga. If you want it bad enough, blood, bones, brain, all are highly plastic and can be changed. Doctors are morons.

[needagameplan]

Don't beat yourself up too much. 60% of jaw growth is done by 5, 80% by 12, and the rest by ~20. The risk factors were likely already in place by that point, you were screwed. In my case maybe because I had a closed bite and it didn't open up until later, which can only be explained by mouth breathing (I went to college 2 years early, dorms were a b*tch on my allergies).

If you insist on blaming anyone, then blame your mother. First, for having the genetic risk factors placing you in the lucky 1/3 of the population. Second, for not breast feeding you. Literally the breast, no breast milk in a bottle (my wife and I are guilty as charged here for our first). Third, for not taking you to the orthodontist at the recommended age of 7 and again at 12. Last, and most importantly, for not noticing your poor nose breathing and addressing it while you were young. It's your parents responsibility to take care of you and that means when something is wrong, they fix it. Either through anti-histamines, flonase, or allergy shots. I'm a little peeved because my mom knew I had allergies and did allergy shots for herself and my brother. It didn't help her but she gave up quickly. She didn't want to put in the hour a week for the treatments (and probably to save the money). Arg!!

So basically your parents f**ked up and you're paying the price now. Maybe your parents never noticed, that's ok. We're all human I just don't think laziness and cheapness are good excuses.

Yeah,I mean my parents already had more issues beyond that, lmao.

I guess all I can do is move forward.

Thanks Lazlo, I will take your yoga suggestion and start trying to live a healthier life and balancing my f**ked up spine. And I will go see a maxfac.

If i want a ceph should I go see maxfac directly or GP first?

[Lazlo]

Yeah,I mean my parents already had more issues beyond that, lmao.

I guess all I can do is move forward.

Thanks Lazlo, I will take your yoga suggestion and start trying to live a healthier life and balancing my f**ked up spine. And I will go see a maxfac.

If i want a ceph should I go see maxfac directly or GP first?

just go see a max fac. gps don't know s**t.

[terry947]

welcome to the mouth breathing club.

I fully agree with molestrip about parents being responsible. Like f**k, how can you not notice someone breathing through their mouth. Then again i didnt notice i was doing it.... So i guess i have to also blame myself for not being self aware enough to have noticed it.

also if you get a BSSO you need a LF1 to match the advancement, if you have a overbite.

[needagameplan]

Well the orthodontist made a compensated bite, i suppose by narrowing the palate or something... but I also think the lower jaw grew, but is now held back by the bite (trapped under upper teeth). It is actually more comfortable for me to kind of sit my teeth on top of each other by moving by lower jaw forward and lower, but it's not sound dentally in that position. That's why I'm wondering how much of this can be undone with just braces. Anyway, hopefully Posnick will reply to his email.

[terry947]

Ya I know what you mean with the jutting of the jaw. When i do that I also feel like it kind of relaxes the jaw and doesn't feel as jammed back.

Braces alone will not do s**t. Orthodontists "fix" overbite by flaring teeth or using elastic/ head gear to pull he upper jaw back or jam the lower jaw back. If an orthodontists tells you he can fix a deep/overbite, it is pure BS.

At the most if you find a good orthodontist he can expand your upper jaw slightly with self lighting braces like DAMON Or SPEED braces.

[needagameplan]

Wow. Dr Posnick seems like a real ace. I sent emails to 5 or so maxfacs last night. I check this morning, only he has replied (I believe he replied personally).

Do maxfacs usually charge for consultation, even if they don't accept insurance?

[needagameplan]

I also heard back from this group, which is in-network

http://www.integrativeofs.com/meet-us/ziad-a-ali-dmd-md/

What do you think?

[Lazlo]

Wow. Dr Posnick seems like a real ace. I sent emails to 5 or so maxfacs last night. I check this morning, only he has replied (I believe he replied personally).

Do maxfacs usually charge for consultation, even if they don't accept insurance?

yup some charge upwards of 500-1000 dollars for a consult, though most charge around 100 bucks.