Author Topic: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?  (Read 8563 times)

Lazlo

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HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« on: May 13, 2015, 10:05:59 PM »
This is almost a philosophical question.

We do not yet exist in the age of complete regenesis. NO doubt such an era will occur where human beings will be physically plastic and mutable. That is, there will be procedures in plastic surgery to change anything at will. New eyes, different hair, skin etc. all will be synthesized in labs, samples taken from your own tissue and grown and then grafted or implanted into you.

But right now, how much is really alterable? Certainly the payoff for many of us of simply moving our lower jaw forward or a recessed maxilla can create wonders for one's appearance. But true beauty, I wonder, is this at all within our grasp?

Sometimes I feel fatalistic about this question and think it's impossible. But then my will says, anything is possible for a willing mind. Somewhere there is a solution to every problem and w must find it! I've seen remarkable, remarkable improvements and transformations through plastic surgery. But that holy grail of actual beauty. Can an ungly duckling be transformed into a swan? No. As things stand now, I do not believe it's truly possible. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna let it stop me from giving my best f**king shot.

falcao

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2015, 02:39:23 AM »
This is almost a philosophical question.

We do not yet exist in the age of complete regenesis. NO doubt such an era will occur where human beings will be physically plastic and mutable. That is, there will be procedures in plastic surgery to change anything at will. New eyes, different hair, skin etc. all will be synthesized in labs, samples taken from your own tissue and grown and then grafted or implanted into you.

But right now, how much is really alterable? Certainly the payoff for many of us of simply moving our lower jaw forward or a recessed maxilla can create wonders for one's appearance. But true beauty, I wonder, is this at all within our grasp?

Sometimes I feel fatalistic about this question and think it's impossible. But then my will says, anything is possible for a willing mind. Somewhere there is a solution to every problem and w must find it! I've seen remarkable, remarkable improvements and transformations through plastic surgery. But that holy grail of actual beauty. Can an ungly duckling be transformed into a swan? No. As things stand now, I do not believe it's truly possible. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna let it stop me from giving my best f**king shot.

You are - we are - the most screwed up generation in the HISTORY OF HUMANITY. Go anywhere in the past 5,000 years of written human history - from Ancient Babylonia and Egypt through to your grandparents' (or even parents') generation, the pressure to look good was not there. Beauty has been recognized since always, but there was little to NONE at all pressure for the average man or even woman to look good (depending on the era and the place). Actually, in the centuries past, being poor and beautiful put you in real risk and history is replete with tragic examples of mostly women (but also many men) who were beautiful but did not had the social class, skills or even intelligence to manage that asset to their advantage and often ended up tragically (abducted, raped, taken advantage of, even murdered). I read a history book on this subject full with examples.

Now, go anywhere in the future - the chances are the pressure to look good is here to stay and grow, but so is the science and technology to transform those who were born less fortunate.

This is the ONLY times in history where little is possible in terms of changing, but the pressure to look good is enormous almost anywhere you go in the free world. There is no place to hide.

To answer your question - you can change a lot to the point even your parents would have a hard time recognizing you. But will it be for the better? My answer is PROBABLY, if not MOST LIKELY no. The science and technology are simply not there to TRANSFORM someone. To improve, yes. To transform - I don't think so.

PS can 'transform' someone into good looking only if they have a good basis to start from. In which case it is not a transformation but improvement from a good starting position. In that case the trouble of even multiple surgeries may be worth it. But this requires YEARS of careful planning and execution and lots, lots of LUCK (here comes the unpredictability of it all) and also a lot of patience, MONEY and resilience (think of the need for revisions - even multiple ones). Even with a good basis, things can go awfully wrong. Think about my example with the butcher Mommaerts. I didn't have a point of reference that he was a butcher when I had my surgery with him. Let's say you pick up your surgeon based on a thorough research and impeccable reputation, as I did when I picked him. Can you be sure that behind the 10 great examples he showed you there aren't another 10 unfortunate outcomes who reconciled with their destiny and live their lives somewhere miserable? No, you can't. As it turns out with Mommaerts, dozens of people reached out to me and shared their stories of them being butchered by him.

So, you have to take a leap of faith. And that's where things can go terribly wrong - it is a CHANCE we are talking about. As in the laws of probability and randomness. Once again I underline my point - the science and technology for a guaranteed good outcome are not there. Not to speak about the skills and work ethics of your surgeon, about which you can only make an educated guess at best, no matter how much f**king research you do. So, all you can do is minimize the risk as much as you think you can - but the fact is that risk is never minimal, even if you are in very good hands. It's still a pretty damn BIG risk. Only you can decide if you are going to take it. Even if things do not go wrong, how much of an improvement one can objectively expect? I don't know, that's something to consider on a case by case basis, but the general answer is not much.

So, I sympathize with you - being born at any other time in the history or future would have been better from this point of view. Even the babies born now will have so much more scientific and technological opportunities to change the way they look and defy their DNA to a great extent. Of course, provided that they can afford it.






PloskoPlus

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 05:01:32 AM »
I've been pondering the same.  My major deformity is gone after my jaw surgery.  So the low hanging fruit has been picked.  It's diminishing returns from here on out.  Yet big name surgeons I've contacted seem to be willing to operate on me.  Are they really after money?  I would think big name surgeons will only take cases where they can see a definite improvement.  They should have plenty of work.  In fact, I know for a fact that these surgeons have rejected other people.  So should I keep going?  90% of good look is about the eyes, IMO.  There is no surgery for potato eyes.  Half of me wants to quit while I'm still ahead.

The great before and afters we see is attractive deformed people minus the deformity post surgery.  That's it.  The example I keep coming back to:
Model-looking girl with an underbite turns into... a model looking girl with a normal bite.  She always had great eyes and lips.

http://drrichardjoseph.com/photos/113.php

As for magical transformation technology in the future?  I don't know.  Most likely none will be required, because only beautiful people will be born.  There is also the question of whether humans will still exist in the present form in the future.


geijutsu

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 06:03:46 AM »
People of ancient civilizations -hell even our grandparents- had other kinds of pressures to attend to than looks. There was simply too much on their plate to factor it in the equation. If you go back in history, you'd find out that the ability of seeing a clear, distortion-free reflection of yourself is merely few hundred years go, and even then; it was something that only wealthy people had access to. Those guys were too rich to worry about real problems like others from the lower classes.

Modern societies traded in primal, essential-for-survival problems like food, shelter and security for less essential ones like the one we're talking about. Most of us here are born having those basic needs secured for us, so we take it for granted and look for new (possibly less important) things to chase after. It's the hedonistic treadmill that's hardwired in each and every single one of us; we hit the reset button every time we reach a goal, only to end up replacing it by another one.

As far as options go, think of it this way: couple of centuries ago, it was more common, or even accepted to ostracize an extremely ugly or deformed person in their community. That person had only two (possibly three) options; A) live with it B) find a quack who's eager to slice their face open (no anesthesia) or C) throw themselves of a cliff. Compared to now, people with deformities have plethora of surgeons, procedures, research means to do something about normalizing their appearance. Hell, in most cases you don't even have to worry about paying from your own pocket for them.

Yes, nothing is guaranteed, you're always rolling the dice even under the best of hands, but when was anything guaranteed? Life is a minefield, more so back in history than it is now, most of us can say that they can lay their head on the pillow knowing that tomorrow won't bring something that'll completely turn our lives upside down, it's not 100% guaranteed, but it's pretty damn close compared to what our ancestors had to endure with the all the uncertainties life had to offer of which humans had not control of at the time.

So, I don't think we're the most screwed up generation in human history. On the contrary, I think we're incredibly fortunate when we factor in how much of what was considered elusive few generations ago is practically handed to us for next to nothing. If the worst thing that can happen to us is competing over looks, then we are mightily lucky.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 06:49:24 AM by geijutsu »

dantheman

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 07:26:12 AM »
I will say that food is probably not a factor, at least not directly.

What about asthma, allergies, sinus problems? They are all on the rise and affect breathing more than anything. I grew up eating healthy meals, my jaws are still f*d.

needadvancement

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 07:32:57 AM »
I'm not asking for much. It's only my chin and mouth area that I want to change. I cannot even imagine going through something like a LF3 or even LF1.

JawKid7

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 01:46:42 PM »
I cannot even imagine going through something like a LF3 or even LF1.

why?
"Everyone sees what you appear to be, few experience what you really are.”

had upper jaw surgery on 5th October 2015

needadvancement

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 02:01:43 PM »
It's just not for me, I can't deal with that level of risk and sacrifice. I'm not an ugly guy though(not good looking either), maybe my desperation would be a lot different if I felt as bad about my appearance like other people here so I can't judge.

Lazlo

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 03:30:06 PM »
wow that really sparked an outpouring of very interesting historical and philosophical opinions and speculations. An interesting read! Thanks guys!

falcao

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2015, 06:56:06 AM »
Well yeah you can become attractive but most people would need to make up for the fact their bones didn't grow forward enough, so we would probably all need what obwegesers girl got - lefort 1 & lefort 3 at the bare minimum.

And f**k getting a lf3 - nobody here will get a conventional one.

LOL. I suggest grossjaw change the name of this forum to theobwegeserssgirl.com. The number of times I've seen her referred to in posts here is beyond belief. Given that the man is 90-years old, I wonder when this girl had her surgery and if she is not a grandmother by now, rather than a girl.

Also, you all might think about building her a monument or a pedestal at the very least.

swisser

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 08:37:54 AM »
LOL. I suggest grossjaw change the name of this forum to theobwegeserssgirl.com. The number of times I've seen her referred to in posts here is beyond belief. Given that the man is 90-years old, I wonder when this girl had her surgery and if she is not a grandmother by now, rather than a girl.
There are two surgeons called Obwegeser, Joachim and Hugo. Both are from Uni Zurich (and they are in fact related). But the younger one that operated on the girl was born in 1956...

PloskoPlus

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 01:13:07 PM »
That paper is from 2007.  The lf3 brooha is made all the greater because the other ones in the paper did not have it and look average at best.  It's the stark contrast in her before and after as well as versus other cases in the paper.

PloskoPlus

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 01:15:16 PM »
There are two surgeons called Obwegeser, Joachim and Hugo. Both are from Uni Zurich (and they are in fact related). But the younger one that operated on the girl was born in 1956...
Joachim is Hugo's nephew. Joachim is no longer associated with the uni hospital.

Lazlo

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2015, 09:15:06 PM »
Sinn told me Obeswegger is over 90. And that he's not well. But that he has a son who is a good surgeon. In fact he thought he was one of the few that would do the type of malar osteotomy etc. that I wanted. I brushed that off, since I'm not going to switzerland of course.


Optimistic

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Re: HOW MUCH CAN WE REALLY CHANGE?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2015, 01:23:01 AM »
Sinn told me Obeswegger is over 90. And that he's not well. But that he has a son who is a good surgeon. In fact he thought he was one of the few that would do the type of malar osteotomy etc. that I wanted. I brushed that off, since I'm not going to switzerland of course.

Are you referring to Joachim?
01/10/14 - Last night I spilt spaghetti sauce on my chin for the very first time in my life and cried.