COULD SOMEONE SMARTER THAN ME IN SCIENCE EXPLAIN THIS TO ME!!!????

[LoveofScotch]

We’re assuming that the technology is the problem.

The path to bringing a medical device to market poses prodigious challenges.

And even if said product made it to market finding a surgeon, at least in the interim, would likely be difficult. (People who work directly with patients often don’t like new stuff.)

I wouldn’t wait for something that seems to be right around the corner because it’s probably not. The technology may indeed be there, but actually getting it to people (or in this case, getting it inside people) is a very different complexity.

And just a little note: to more directly answer your question…the technology simply isn’t there yet to get you your new custom, “biological bone implants”. We can get stuff to grow, but can’t yet determine if and how it will behave.

Signed, a very sorry but always hopeful, nobody on the Internet.

Hope you’re well, Lazlo. 

[Lazlo]

We’re assuming that the technology is the problem.

The path to bringing a medical device to market poses prodigious challenges.

And even if said product made it to market finding a surgeon, at least in the interim, would likely be difficult. (People who work directly with patients often don’t like new stuff.)

I wouldn’t wait for something that seems to be right around the corner because it’s probably not. The technology may indeed be there, but actually getting it to people (or in this case, getting it inside people) is a very different complexity.

And just a little note: to more directly answer your question…the technology simply isn’t there yet to get you your new custom, “biological bone implants”. We can get stuff to grow, but can’t yet determine if and how it will behave.

Signed, a very sorry but always hopeful, nobody on the Internet.

Hope you’re well, Lazlo.

Oh okay so basically nothing is going to change and we're f**ked.

You know what pissess me off? I sort of assumed jaw surgery was a reasonably advanced well thought out procedure and was common and there was a lot of expertise.

Its not.

It's f**king primitive. Even the best are prone to TONS of errors and you're quite likely to get a s**t result.

They're not even gonna be doing this s**t in 20 years. We just showed up with our pathetic problems 20 years too early.

What a f**king s**tstorm.

[GJ]

We haven't seen advancement in anything really. I mean look at internet speeds. They're still s**t! Delivering packages by snail mail. Total s**t. We should have next day drones. Using gasoline when we have the sun. Etc.

Many times there is incentive to keep an old paradigm in place until the $ end of it doesn't make sense anymore. What costs more: jaw surgery + ortho with a lifetime of problems (business), or having a bio face created over night and you're done for life? Even orthos are scared of those 3D printed braces because it has a chance of being much better, cheaper technology. Follow the money, as always.

I understand some of the science, but it's only half the problem. The other half is old guards are in place to protect themselves. A surgeon who went to school and learned how to cut bone is not going to want to go back and learn how to create your custom bio-face when cutting bone is keeping him busy and paying him well.

[Lazlo]

We haven't seen advancement in anything really. I mean look at internet speeds. They're still s**t! Delivering packages by snail mail. Total s**t. We should have next day drones. Using gasoline when we have the sun. Etc.

Many times there is incentive to keep an old paradigm in place until the $ end of it doesn't make sense anymore. What costs more: jaw surgery + ortho with a lifetime of problems (business), or having a bio face created over night and you're done for life? Even orthos are scared of those 3D printed braces because it has a chance of being much better, cheaper technology. Follow the money, as always.

I understand some of the science, but it's only half the problem. The other half is old guards are in place to protect themselves. A surgeon who went to school and learned how to cut bone is not going to want to go back and learn how to create your custom bio-face when cutting bone is keeping him busy and paying him well.

oh GJ, bro you're further putting a deathknell into my hopes. But Epibone says that it will release produces by 2025 (I mean I probably won't give a s**t by then, I hope, but yeah....they'll just custom build implants and it won't take new training from a doc to apply that, it'll just be like attaching a medpor implant, but real bone) --so I'm not too worried about the training part. But yeah, all these issues will create inertia to new discoveries.

Goes to show you how important free market competition is to technological advancement. That's why computers improve so swiftly, they're key consumer items with global competition trying to edge out the competition.

That said, for biotech, you can't beat China where a non-idiotic (i.e. non religious and full of s**t) centralized govt. can just mandate that you do s**t without crap like the FDA.

[ForeverAloneDude]

We haven't seen advancement in anything really. I mean look at internet speeds. They're still s**t! Delivering packages by snail mail. Total s**t. We should have next day drones. Using gasoline when we have the sun. Etc.

Many times there is incentive to keep an old paradigm in place until the $ end of it doesn't make sense anymore. What costs more: jaw surgery + ortho with a lifetime of problems (business), or having a bio face created over night and you're done for life? Even orthos are scared of those 3D printed braces because it has a chance of being much better, cheaper technology. Follow the money, as always.

I understand some of the science, but it's only half the problem. The other half is old guards are in place to protect themselves. A surgeon who went to school and learned how to cut bone is not going to want to go back and learn how to create your custom bio-face when cutting bone is keeping him busy and paying him well.

Yet they still research the future a lot for internet, battery tech, etc. As you said, they keep the old paradigm in place until it makes sense to finally cause a shift.

Research isn't a limiting factor there. Plenty of research.

[ForeverAloneDude]

oh GJ, bro you're further putting a deathknell into my hopes. But Epibone says that it will release produces by 2025 (I mean I probably won't give a s**t by then, I hope, but yeah....they'll just custom build implants and it won't take new training from a doc to apply that, it'll just be like attaching a medpor implant, but real bone) --so I'm not too worried about the training part. But yeah, all these issues will create inertia to new discoveries.

Goes to show you how important free market competition is to technological advancement. That's why computers improve so swiftly, they're key consumer items with global competition trying to edge out the competition.

That said, for biotech, you can't beat China where a non-idiotic (i.e. non religious and full of s**t) centralized govt. can just mandate that you do s**t without crap like the FDA.

Hope is a good coping mechanism. Its probably "over" for me when it comes to being handsome too despite being only 22.

But I can see how you want to keep your hopes up. Imagine being pumped at still being that handsome man in his 50s. George Clooney type after all these years despite the chance of that being 0.1%. Well its still 0.1% bro!!!

[Lazlo]

Hope is a good coping mechanism. Its probably "over" for me when it comes to being handsome too despite being only 22.

But I can see how you want to keep your hopes up. Imagine being pumped at still being that handsome man in his 50s. George Clooney type after all these years despite the chance of that being 0.1%. Well its still 0.1% bro!!!

I dunno, well paradigms about age will change too. 50 used to be f**king senior citizens a few decades ago. The irony is it was perfectly acceptable for a man in his 50s or even 60s to date women in their early 20s back in the 1920s-1950s....well its still acceptable in California and Vegas and places like that.

So who f**king cares. Yeah hope  is a good way to cope. Its not that I'm stalling on my life though. I just have ideals I aspire to.

[ForeverAloneDude]

I dunno, well paradigms about age will change too. 50 used to be f**king senior citizens a few decades ago. The irony is it was perfectly acceptable for a man in his 50s or even 60s to date women in their early 20s back in the 1920s-1950s....well its still acceptable in California and Vegas and places like that.

So who f**king cares. Yeah hope  is a good way to cope. Its not that I'm stalling on my life though. I just have ideals I aspire to.

Oh I wasn't talking about acceptance of age, haha. I'm still on technology. I'm saying... I mean, it doesn't hurt to tell yourself that you have finally "made it" after all these years, but tbh it seems like you are in a major coping phase.

What we need is a paradigm shift in acceptance of looks and its affect on how a person lives. Its a very American thing to deny that for pretty much everything and this country's BS "toxic optimism" as I like to call it. That will actually bring demand in hardcore future tech.

[Lazlo]

Oh I wasn't talking about acceptance of age, haha. I'm still on technology. I'm saying... I mean, it doesn't hurt to tell yourself that you have finally "made it" after all these years, but tbh it seems like you are in a major coping phase.

What we need is a paradigm shift in acceptance of looks and its affect on how a person lives. Its a very American thing to deny that for pretty much everything and this country's BS "toxic optimism" as I like to call it. That will actually bring demand in hardcore future tech.

No bro, I'm not in a coping phase about looks. My looks are f**king fine and I slay a fair bit. What I'm having a tough time with is aging.  In the process of looking at pics of me and other people when they have before and afters. You see pics of them in their 20s and early 30s  --they look beautiful, even if they aren't the best looking. Those same people by 40 look f**king disgusting. Why deny it? Yeah older men can get young women, but still as far as looks go you're f**king done for. So aging is the worst thing in the world. It really is. Even good looking people look like s**t by 40-45.

[Lazlo]

Anyway so yeah age sucks and makes people look ugly once they hit 35-40 (for women) and men get a bit of leeway if they're better looking or in good shape but its over for them too past 55 then you just become a freak.


But hey, what do you know b*tches. From some study on the internet about implants:

"Any specialty emerges as per needs of the end user. Engineers and Surgeons are leading towards the emergence of a new specialization as bio CAD/CAM that will make possible emergence of patient specific implants that will replicate not only form as it is today but also have mechanical, chemical and physiological properties similar to native tissues they replace and provide an environment for cell differentiation and growth.

Common biomaterials currently used have not changed much overtime even with the ushering in of bio ceramics that are osteoconductive and biopolymers that have mechanical properties closer to natural tissues. There is no one material that can provide a complete solution. The future is regenerative medicine that allows for growth of natural tissues similar to the region of implantation. Advances in material science and synthesis of bone and tissues will lead to a new generation of designer implants that can be named as “integratable implants made for you.” Additive manufacturing which takes manufacturing to a whole new direction without the boundaries of shape and structure and create parts with repeatability will be the future of custom implants manufacture and will widen the spectrum of materials suitable for the purpose. To summarize the future will see more combination alloplastic and autologous materials being used in conjunction to create the next generation craniofacial implants."

As they said, the future is in tissue regeneration for implants. So stop acting like this is never gonna happen. It will and it will make all the bulls**t including the way s**tty jaw surgeries are done obsolete.

[ForeverAloneDude]

Anyway so yeah age sucks and makes people look ugly once they hit 35-40 (for women) and men get a bit of leeway if they're better looking or in good shape but its over for them too past 55 then you just become a freak.


But hey, what do you know b*tches. From some study on the internet about implants:

"Any specialty emerges as per needs of the end user. Engineers and Surgeons are leading towards the emergence of a new specialization as bio CAD/CAM that will make possible emergence of patient specific implants that will replicate not only form as it is today but also have mechanical, chemical and physiological properties similar to native tissues they replace and provide an environment for cell differentiation and growth.

Common biomaterials currently used have not changed much overtime even with the ushering in of bio ceramics that are osteoconductive and biopolymers that have mechanical properties closer to natural tissues. There is no one material that can provide a complete solution. The future is regenerative medicine that allows for growth of natural tissues similar to the region of implantation. Advances in material science and synthesis of bone and tissues will lead to a new generation of designer implants that can be named as “integratable implants made for you.” Additive manufacturing which takes manufacturing to a whole new direction without the boundaries of shape and structure and create parts with repeatability will be the future of custom implants manufacture and will widen the spectrum of materials suitable for the purpose. To summarize the future will see more combination alloplastic and autologous materials being used in conjunction to create the next generation craniofacial implants."

As they said, the future is in tissue regeneration for implants. So stop acting like this is never gonna happen. It will and it will make all the bulls**t including the way s**tty jaw surgeries are done obsolete.

I've always maintained that the "wall" for women is a bigger coping mech than for men. Like I said, most older men don't look like Clooney etc. And most men bald at around 35-40. I've seen plenty of attractive women who were attractive through that time period.

Anyways I hope the future is bright. I'm close to getting a gf as of now with a particular girl so I'm a bit happier now. But even if I stay with her for 30 years, I will still have the dream of being legit good looking even while staying with her.

[GJ]

Women can be attractive into their 50s if they stay out of the sun most of their lives and have good skin genetics. It's all about skin quality for them. Once it sags it's over.
Men, too, but it's not as bad. So lucky to have a full head of hair, full beard, etc and great skin. Hair covers up a lot of issues. Someone thought I was 30 the other day. Bless her heart!

Regarding research, yeah, there is research into new surgical techniques (e.g. Distraction, which will be the future), but you see top docs shooting it down rather than trying to improve it. The people trying to improve it are younger med students and doctors who are on the fringe, in general, because they aren't getting great business in the current paradigm. They likely aren't skilled at surgery, so they're in research. That's fine, but we don't have the best minds doing the more important work, which is improving this surgery's predictability. Society is very inefficient; a lot of malivestment. E.g. Our best minds are once again flipping subprime credit on Wall Street instead of fixing real problems. If this is what society rewards then this is the society we'll get.

[haven]

Just remember - black don't crack, Asian don't raisin and brown don't frown. Not sure if there's one for white 🤗

[XXRyanXXL]

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering, I have my own business and I design custom processors and asics, and in a couple of my designs I incorporated human intelligence. I can tell you the limitations of the hardware itself and the size of coding is substantial. I've seen many robotics that appear on the scene and news tv stations, and we aren't even close to resembling human interactions and the complex thought processes of humans. Sure we can emulate this interaction, but it comes down to how deep we want to go and how far we can progress the technology. IMO As far as why we aren't seeing biotech companies showcasing the ability to regrow site specific cells (stem cells) and proliferation of satellite cells is that a lot of it is in the R&D phases and clinical trials.
BTW moores law failed several years ago, we are already down to 8nm in gate designs, and there is a limit to how small you can go (to the size of atoms) and pack all these transistors into a die because each transistor generates heat, the more you pack in a square centimeter, the more heat it generates, which can be destructive to the overall die.

[Lefortitude]

We need a market based solution. The best way imo is to spread the truth about orthos and 2018s s**t surgery techniques, particularly for cosmetics. Once people en mass seek better newer solutions, the market will provide them.