surgery, please help

[SKV2]

But you need to understand that every surgeon is aiming for perfection, so even if they dont offer whatever procedure you think you need, they might do a compensation on another end to go in the same direction. When you meet the next surgeon, he might look at it and consider the last surgery a screw up for what he is trying to achieve. You might just end up travelling around doing compensations and revisions, if you go enough rounds in the loop you might end up with something good, but I doubt it. Aesthetics of a face is a complex issue and there may be many solutions, it's about harmonizing the relation between different parts, not about picking a jaw line from one picture, nose somewhere else and putting it together into a super face.

i get that harmony is the most important and it comes down to how features interact with each other, but u act as if im posting models pics saying i want this or something... im posting my own pics lol. i just want to have my face back, id be content with the face i was born with.


plus, its impossible to get it all done with one surgeon. even if i went with gunson for genio and didnt get a chin wing, what of the part of the maxilla that is left untouched by the lefort 1 cut?? that part still needs to be moved, and he simply doesnt offer modified version of the lf3. and thats all just lateral movements, not even touching on adding horizontal projection which afaik requires implants since zso isnt that great and theres no ost for mandibular width other than that widening procedure, like sarpe for the lower jaw, but no one offers that .

[PloskoPlus]

Wolford does modified lf3s and jaw surgery and even rhinoplasty. His mod lf3 is entirely intra oral.

[SKV2]

Wolford does modified lf3s and jaw surgery and even rhinoplasty. His mod lf3 is entirely intra oral.

interesting, thx for the info. if i do end up choosing this path how would i coordinate it between sinn/wolford/ob and gunson?

[PloskoPlus]

interesting, thx for the info. if i do end up choosing this path how would i coordinate it between sinn/wolford/ob and gunson?

The results I saw in Wolfords office were the best I've seen. Granted I've not been in Gunsons office. Also bear in mind that top tier surgeons tend to treat wealthier people, who are generally better looking. And the best surgery results are of decent to good looking people ("the eyes have it") whose dentofacial deformity was fixed. As per Gunson - the eyes are no longer drawn to the deformity away from the person's other qualities.

 I've not seen his mod lf3 result (I would've been late for the plane). Honestly I don't think any other surgeon is so hardcore. Want to expand your lower arch so that the upper arch can be expanded even more? Subapical osteotomy to the rescue, etc.  He doesn't do implants anymore, because he's had people come back after 15 years with infections. But from what he implied, they are just as good as osteotomies for infraorbital zygomatic augmentation, the only issue is infection risk.

[GJ]

Didn't read much at all and went straight to the photos, so take this with a grain of salt, but from the photos your upper jaw needs to advance. Problem is lower jaw looks a bit recessed, so maybe a genio in addition to that. If I were a surgeon that would be my plan (depending whether the bite would fit with those movements).

[SKV2]

Didn't read much at all and went straight to the photos, so take this with a grain of salt, but from the photos your upper jaw needs to advance. Problem is lower jaw looks a bit recessed, so maybe a genio in addition to that. If I were a surgeon that would be my plan (depending whether the bite would fit with those movements).

thx, thats in line with what surgeons said. if u dont have the time to read, i would at least urge u to view all the imgur links (12).

[SKV2]

The results I saw in Wolfords office were the best I've seen. Granted I've not been in Gunsons office. Also bear in mind that top tier surgeons tend to treat wealthier people, who are generally better looking. And the best surgery results are of decent to good looking people ("the eyes have it") whose dentofacial deformity was fixed. As per Gunson - the eyes are no longer drawn to the deformity away from the person's other qualities.

 I've not seen his mod lf3 result (I would've been late for the plane). Honestly I don't think any other surgeon is so hardcore. Want to expand your lower arch so that the upper arch can be expanded even more? Subapical osteotomy to the rescue, etc.  He doesn't do implants anymore, because he's had people come back after 15 years with infections. But from what he implied, they are just as good as osteotomies for infraorbital zygomatic augmentation, the only issue is infection risk.

interesting. since during my first consults i knew nothing and im p sure the ceph used wasnt even in frankurt plane, and now im more educated on the matter and have a better idea of what id want, im thinking that after i ascertain what i can from here (wont just leave i intend to stick around and post updates, help others when i see the opportunity etc) ill just get on a plane and consult again , knowing what i know now. maybe just everyone because why not at this point. gunson, sinn, wolford, obwegeser, zarinbal, the couple others that do chin wing and zso in zurich, raifaini, even sailer. its likely going overboard but as i said this is all i have left in life anymore so i dont want to screw it up.





also to add in some more, here is a frontal age 19 and a video i took the other day to demonstrate, in motion, my mandibular jutting and using my tongue to push forward the alveolar process area right up to nasal base. obv sans the horrid expression im forced to make in order to do this, i dont mind how i look when doing it in good lighting. the frontal was dlsr, the video is of course snapchat front cam iphone 7.



also, is there a reason why i cant just give surgeons profiles and frontals of my face before it got destroyed and just say i would like my face back? surely ill never breach the threshold of knowing more than they do, so i assume they would reach either the same or a superior conclusion than i would/have.



there also seems to be new asymmetry that wasnt there before, also reflected in the frontal x ray. im hoping its soft tissue from an uneven bite and will resolve itself.



19 front dlsr:


https://imgur.com/aEGY5FJ



jutting video, 21:


https://imgur.com/2qdoc6s

[Dogmatix]

i just want to have my face back, id be content with the face i was born with.

Have you had any procedures done already, or why do you have someone else's face?

[SKV2]

Have you had any procedures done already, or why do you have someone else's face?

if u bothered to read the op and look at all pics ive posted ur answer would be found, with all due respect. ill re type it tho for u.


no procedures done yet.

impacted adult left (on my side) canine, f**ked my bite up, caused tongue to drop down since reduced palatal real estate drastically(my own exp plus others ive seen plus the study with monkeys makes me fully support the idea of oral posture directing jaw and face development pre growth cessation ) . as a result whole face changed, i showed comparison pics of then and now of frontals , profile at rest, and profile exposing teeth/gums . in other pics esp with other ppl in them i look putrid, whole face aside from recessing seems to also have narrowed and elongated and even lost symmetry, but i didnt want to just flood the thread with pics plus save people from vomiting lol, so i did my best to compare apples to apples, and aside from 1 pic in the op taken with an iphone , all of them were taken with a dlsr camera, and i did my best to crop them all and rotate them to fit frankfurt plane, as well as flip some so obv they all are of the same side/in the same direction.

i simply want my old face back pre canine ruining tongue posture and in turn ruining face. its sad since in everyone i see that didnt have some obscene issue, everything stays the same from a v young age (features, symmetry, profile, phenotype) and they just get more sexually dimorphic post puberty.

[kavan]

I disclose that I'm NOT going to go through all your many and assorted ruminations on multiple sections of the board as to make order of them or to otherwise 'untangle' your disordered thoughts. Too much ENTROPY for me.  However, I'll give you some advice as to orderly LOGISTICS.

1: IF you want people to look at your (many) photos, put them ALL on the SAME link as in a series of photos with descriptions under each photo.

ORDERLY presentation= ALL photos and EACH with captions/descriptions on the SAME link/page/photo site.

DISORDERLY presentation= Each photo on different photo link and descriptions ABSENT from the photo link.

2: Photos should be current as in CLOSE to how you look AT PRESENT.

'I want to have the face I was born with'. Could be translated as: 'I want to have the same face I had when I came out of my mother's c*nt.'

3: The logistic order for surgery combining/different doctors at different times for different things is this:

a: Maxfax FIRST (lefort1 plus BSSO and genio if called for) for the jaw to jaw and bite balance. As was mentioned here, the best doc you can afford in the event you need some displacements that the 'garden variety' assortment of maxfax docs don't do. For example if you need a lot of things that could be done by say Gunson for which others don't/won't/can't do. Choose him or similar for the maxfax FIRST.

b**: An 'add on' OPTION such as a chin wing OR implants can be done LATER down the line with what ever doctor you wish to do either. But after you have defined what type of outcome you are aiming for and which procedure is more on target with the outcome you seek.

c**: An 'add on' OPTION such as modidified Lefort 3 or MIMICING one via implants can also be done LATER down the line  with what ever doctor you wish to do either. But after you have defined what type of outcome you are aiming for and which procedure is more on target with the outcome you seek.

** Keep in mind that BONE CUTS come BEFORE implant overlays. So an implant (custom) can be overlayed over a bone cut whether it's a modified L3 or a chin wing in the event you want more of an augmentation. So, you don't have to 'undo' a bone cut to get an implant over it. But you would have to undo an implant if you later wanted a bone cut to the vicinity the implant was.