What's your assessment on Orthotropics?

[Austinou88]

What's your feeling on Orthotropics? I watched this 2 minute video
and I don't know s*** about it. Would someone be able to please clarify?

Additionally, what about his claim that 50% of jaw surgerys cases will relapse within 12-15 years?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QL8FLC63s5c

[kavan]

He's talking about how surgery in LATER life can be avoided via an early INTERVENTION during the GROWTH PHASE in cases where there is excessive OVERJET; cases where the patient would usually have to WAIT until they finished the growth phase to have surgery to correct a 'backward face' growth pattern. The EARLY intervention aims itself at guiding FORWARD growth DURING the growth phase so the patient won't need to get jaw surgery when the growth phase is completed (when they are around or over 18 or so). The type of patients he's referring to are those who've not completed the growth phase, ie CHILDREN and adolescents with excessive overjets who would otherwise have to wait until they were over 18 to have the skeletal imbalance corrected via jaw surgery. In that way the result is STABLE and more so than having to get surgery after the growth phase.

As to 50% relapse, the reference to that probably refers to having to wear a retainer for the rest of one's life (after jaw surgery) to prevent relapse.

So, if you have a KID with that type of problem, early intervention, the way he does it can thwart the need for later ADULT intervention  via jaw surgery.

[Dogmatix]

As to 50% relapse, the reference to that probably refers to having to wear a retainer for the rest of one's life (after jaw surgery) to prevent relapse.

Do you imply retainer is needed to ensure stability of jaw surgery?

[kavan]

Do you imply retainer is needed to ensure stability of jaw surgery?

The implication is that he is probably implying that.

[Austinou88]

He's talking about how surgery in LATER life can be avoided via an early INTERVENTION during the GROWTH PHASE in cases where there is excessive OVERJET; cases where the patient would usually have to WAIT until they finished the growth phase to have surgery to correct a 'backward face' growth pattern. The EARLY intervention aims itself at guiding FORWARD growth DURING the growth phase so the patient won't need to get jaw surgery when the growth phase is completed (when they are around or over 18 or so). The type of patients he's referring to are those who've not completed the growth phase, ie CHILDREN and adolescents with excessive overjets who would otherwise have to wait until they were over 18 to have the skeletal imbalance corrected via jaw surgery. In that way the result is STABLE and more so than having to get surgery after the growth phase.

As to 50% relapse, the reference to that probably refers to having to wear a retainer for the rest of one's life (after jaw surgery) to prevent relapse.

So, if you have a KID with that type of problem, early intervention, the way he does it can thwart the need for later ADULT intervention  via jaw surgery.

Much appreciated for clearing that up Kavan, you're always
knowledgeable on information and usually very helpful. Appreciate
it!

So since it's difficult to time travel as of now, we'd be lucking
out of this it appears? D*mnit Lol! In any event we can spare our
children right?

So to the extent retainers go, that is the best technique for
countering relapse?

[kavan]

Much appreciated for clearing that up Kavan, you're always
knowledgeable on information and usually very helpful. Appreciate
it!

So since it's difficult to time travel as of now, we'd be lucking
out of this it appears? D*mnit Lol! In any event we can spare our
children right?

So to the extent retainers go, that is the best technique for
countering relapse?

Thanx for your kind words.

Ironically, the Mew's attract a lot of adults via those videos.  But it's needed to listen between the lines that the reference is to the growing phase which means kids. For adults their advice is to keep the tongue  at the roof of the mouth and chew lots of hard gum.

When people get jaw surgery, they are often told to wear retainers while sleeping and sometimes that's 'forever' but as time goes on, you only have to use 1-2X/week or so.

[ditterbo]

Tried chewing more gum, injured the TMJ. I advise not to try that in most cases, especially if your joint's already not properly seated in the condyle 'at rest' to begin with...

[Austinou88]

Thanx for your kind words. Ironically, the Mew's attract a lot of adults via those videos.  But it's needed to listen between the lines that the reference is to the growing phase which means kids. For adults their advice is to keep the tongue  at the roof of the mouth and chew lots of hard gum.

Thanks for the help. Is that advice really work, and to what time
frame would they advise you to do that for? It's hard to imagine
most patients willing to follow through and keep that up long term. 

When people get jaw surgery, they are often told to wear retainers while sleeping and sometimes that's 'forever' but as time goes on, you only have to use 1-2X/week or so.

Is that retainer the same thing the Orthodontist would give you to
prevent your teeth from shifting back, or something completely
different?

[kavan]

Thanks for the help. Is that advice really work, and to what time
frame would they advise you to do that for? It's hard to imagine
most patients willing to follow through and keep that up long term. 
Is that retainer the same thing the Orthodontist would give you to
prevent your teeth from shifting back, or something completely
different?

They say to always keep tongue at roof of mouth and to chew the gum for stronger jaw muscles. No idea about what their patients do or don't as far as keeping up. Retainer is to keep the teeth in place so they don't shift. So/same/similar.

[Austinou88]

They say to always keep tongue at roof of mouth and to chew the gum for stronger jaw muscles. No idea about what their patients do or don't as far as keeping up.

Apologies, I believe I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying they
tell adults with jaw development issues to do all that in order to
get them into the correct place? (Also, I was just saying it's hard
to see most would constantly keep their tongue at the top of their
mouth and chew gum routinely.)

Retainer is to keep the teeth in place so they don't shift. So/same/similar.

So the Retainer that is given by the Orthodontist to keep the teeth
in place so they don't shift, additionally works in keeping the jaws
from relapsing also?

[kavan]

Apologies, I believe I'm misunderstanding you. Are you saying they
tell adults with jaw development issues to do all that in order to
get them into the correct place? (Also, I was just saying it's hard
to see most would constantly keep their tongue at the top of their
mouth and chomp gum routinely.)
So the Retainer that is given by the Orthodontist to keep the teeth
in place so they don't shift, additionally works in keeping the jaws
from relapsing also?

No, they don't tell them to do all that to get all in correct place or that it will substitute for what they can do for children. As to correct place, they say at roof of mouth is correct place to hold tongue.  I'd imagine it helps to keep the jaws from relapsing by keeping the teeth from doing so.

Anyway, my initial post was just to clarify what the guy was saying in the video. They have tons of videos if you need to know more about their outlook.

[Austinou88]

No, they don't tell them to do all that to get all in correct place or that it will substitute for what they can do for children. As to correct place, they say at roof of mouth is correct place to hold tongue.  I'd imagine it helps to keep the jaws from relapsing by keeping the teeth from doing so.

Anyway, my initial post was just to clarify what the guy was saying in the video. They have tons of videos if you need to know more about their outlook.

Oh okay I understand what you're saying now. Thanks for the help.

[dardok]

I think it is bulls**t frankly. Since it has become more mainstream you will see the snake oil youtube videos about how to get a chiseled jaw by mewing in the same vein as 10 FAST TRICKS TO LOSE WEIGHT.

I mean there is some true in that your diet and oral posture is influenced by your environment which can cause epigenetic as well as possibly structural changes. But in the broadspectrum the genetic code that decides your face is decided during your birth.

Sure the nurture aspect can likely cause minor changes of 10-20% here or there.

If you google the Bolivia twins it is telling of the effect environment places on development. 2 sets of identical twins are accidentally mixed, one pair grows in a rural area and one in the city. They look very very similar if not identical.

Take this as a grain of salt as it is not an excuse to just stagnate and be a lazy POS, you should always be trying to be the best looking person you can be, or as much as your laziness will allow.
Its just a reminder that the changes you can obtain from the stuff Mew peddles is virtually useless in adulthood and likely very exaggerated before that.

[earl25]

I think it is bulls**t frankly. Since it has become more mainstream you will see the snake oil youtube videos about how to get a chiseled jaw by mewing in the same vein as 10 FAST TRICKS TO LOSE WEIGHT.

I mean there is some true in that your diet and oral posture is influenced by your environment which can cause epigenetic as well as possibly structural changes. But in the broadspectrum the genetic code that decides your face is decided during your birth.

Sure the nurture aspect can likely cause minor changes of 10-20% here or there.

If you google the Bolivia twins it is telling of the effect environment places on development. 2 sets of identical twins are accidentally mixed, one pair grows in a rural area and one in the city. They look very very similar if not identical.

Take this as a grain of salt as it is not an excuse to just stagnate and be a lazy POS, you should always be trying to be the best looking person you can be, or as much as your laziness will allow.
Its just a reminder that the changes you can obtain from the stuff Mew peddles is virtually useless in adulthood and likely very exaggerated before that.

Very true. Alot of the stuff being peddled on looks (weston a price,mew etc) is at best totally unproven and at worst a total scam.

Theres tons of ppl who have horrible diets, aweful oral posture etc and still are good looking. I am a great example of the opposite. I briefly bought into some of this stuff and met with a orofacial myologist. She actually told me based on my rugae my tongue has been kept on the roof of my mouth for a very long time since the rugea of my palate were  worn down. She also said my oral posture was good.  Yet i was born with a recesed jaw and midface.

[GJ]

Phenotype = genotype + environment

So, environment can play a roll if it's bad enough, but our jaws are mostly genetics.