Getting custom 3D CT-designed wraparound jaw and cheek implants in a few weeks

[Post bimax]

I figured. I guess for me, my main point of apprehension (or what you referred to as floundering) regarding these procedures is that there's a risk I'll end looking WORSE after the surgery. Like most of you guys said, I'm decent-looking now, so what if I spend all this money to end up looking legitimately bad?

For example, I would consider the procedure to be a failure if I came out looking like this guy (cheek implant patient of Dr. Niamtu's; before pic is on left, after is on right):

https://www.lovethatface.com/files/2017/05/Untitled-12.jpg

That's why I keep asking everyone, even if I don't come out of the surgery looking like Henry Cavill or an MM, will I at least get SOME improvement in the sense that I will be a generally more attractive male?

That result is definitely a failure, the after is both more feminine and unnatural looking.

My main concern is that, while silicone implants can be removed, they can cause damage to both soft tissue (scarring, skin stretching/sagging) and bone (erosion) over time. You're already hyper sensitive to minor defects so I'm afraid any side effects will cause you more psychological torment if/when implants are removed.

In your case I really think fixing your eye plus some minor horizontal chin augmentation would give you the best result while minimizing risk. And honestly the eye takes precedence above all else. It's not severe by any means, but it would make the biggest difference.

The thing is that noticeable abnormalities have a much greater (negative) impact than whatever positive effects you can obtain by 'optimizing' other parts of your face, assuming things work out. You are already GOOD LOOKING with GREAT structure and balance. The asymmetrical 'lazy' eye issue is your biggest (and IMO your only substantive) problem, and that's what should be addressed above all else.

[SurgerySoon]

That result is definitely a failure, the after is both more feminine and unnatural looking.

My main concern is that, while silicone implants can be removed, they can cause damage to both soft tissue (scarring, skin stretching/sagging) and bone (erosion) over time. You're already hyper sensitive to minor defects so I'm afraid any side effects will cause you more psychological torment if/when implants are removed.

In your case I really think fixing your eye plus some minor horizontal chin augmentation would give you the best result while minimizing risk. And honestly the eye takes precedence above all else. It's not severe by any means, but it would make the biggest difference.

The thing is that noticeable abnormalities have a much greater (negative) impact than whatever positive effects you can obtain by 'optimizing' other parts of your face, assuming things work out. You are already GOOD LOOKING with GREAT structure and balance. The asymmetrical 'lazy' eye issue is your biggest (and IMO your only substantive) problem, and that's what should be addressed above all else.

I'm hoping that the combination of midface implants + midface lift will make my eyes look less buggy and asymmetrical. However, I noticed that on the implant designs, the orbital rim component for the right eye (which is the buggy/asymmetric one) actually projects less than the one for the left eye, so I hope this doesn't result in the asymmetry being preserved after surgery.

So do you actually think I would end up looking worse with the wraparound jaw implant? If so, what's the issue with it -- too much width? Would I be better off with jaw implants that only lower the jaw angles instead of add width?

BTW, what's your opinion on submental lipectomy? I'm thinking about throwing that in as well since I have a pretty noticeable double chin that I'd like to get rid of.

[SurgerySoon]

I could see you benefiting from some Malar augmentation. But I share the sentiments of others on the jaw implants. I think it looks like overkill. That’s a big jaw implant! And you already have a good, strong jawline.

Let me know how this turns out! I just consulted with Dr. Y also for custom orbital, cheek, paranasal, and jaw implant. But I have more of a need of them, as I have midface hypoplasia and less jaw angularity. Happy to share my implant design when he makes them. I just sent him the CT scan.

Good luck with your surgery; please do post your implant designs when you have them.

For me, I think the main benefit to jaw implants would be to add length (but not really much width) so that my jaw angles would be a bit lower and not so steep.

[SurgerySoon]

Here's a morph that someone made for me where they lowered the jaw angles and added more chin projection. I think they added WAY too much additional chin projection, but I do like the look of the lowered jaw angles. Even though having less steep jaw angles obviously looks good from the side, do you guys think that having lower jaw angles would actually look bad from the front?

[kavan]

Here's a morph that someone made for me where they lowered the jaw angles and added more chin projection. I think they added WAY too much additional chin projection, but I do like the look of the lowered jaw angles. Even though having less steep jaw angles obviously looks good from the side, do you guys think that having lower jaw angles would actually look bad from the front?

The morph doesn't show. So, not  the same one where you had the phone covering your chin and the morpher took your GOOD eye 'flipped' it and placed over your bad eye which made the whole face look good?

Other than that since you did ask for jaw like MM, it resolves to a request of WANTING a lot of drop down at the back and also a 'flip out' of the angles so they SHOW from the FRONT. Not even sure why you are asking this question given you asked for jaw angles that flair out from the front. I'll see if I can do a morph that takes into consideration the asymmetry you have to the eye area and also the augments for male model request. Might take some time though because I'm more 'scientific' and don't use automatic programs.

[kavan]

Good luck with your surgery; please do post your implant designs when you have them.

For me, I think the main benefit to jaw implants would be to add length (but not really much width) so that my jaw angles would be a bit lower and not so steep.

Are you a dolt or what?

Plain as day on your implant design that in addition to having a 'drop down' (5mm on one side, 7mm on other) to add length, there is 9mm (8.5 other side) WIDTH increase from the front. 6 years and your still floundering on your decision when surgery is coming 'soon'? 6 years of wanting the jaw of MM Cavill and you still have not figured out WIDTH also factors in to the relationship seen on his face and not just length?

This is one of the reasons I don't think you're a good candidate for what you asked for. The MM jawline PARTS are RIGHT THERE, clear as day on your implant design and width INCREASE is significant for the angles to show and square from the front. Yet after he kicks up implants that accommodate the MM look where they give a LOT of extra WIDTH, you deem width is not really much of a factor as to benefit and WHY even ask people if lowered jaw angles would look good from the front? It just reflects you don't have the capacity to understand--even after 6 years-- that all along you've been asking for the type of jaw that drops down from the back and flares out a lot from the front.

Either go through with your decision and the plan that arose or take some time off and find some remedial tutor that teaches slow kids about simple geometric relationships.

[SurgerySoon]

Are you a dolt or what?

Plain as day on your implant design that in addition to having a 'drop down' (5mm on one side, 7mm on other) to add length, there is 9mm (8.5 other side) WIDTH increase from the front. 6 years and your still floundering on your decision when surgery is coming 'soon'? 6 years of wanting the jaw of MM Cavill and you still have not figured out WIDTH also factors in to the relationship seen on his face and not just length?

This is one of the reasons I don't think you're a good candidate for what you asked for. The MM jawline PARTS are RIGHT THERE, clear as day on your implant design and width INCREASE is significant for the angles to show and square from the front. Yet after he kicks up implants that accommodate the MM look where they give a LOT of extra WIDTH, you deem width is not really much of a factor as to benefit and WHY even ask people if lowered jaw angles would look good from the front? It just reflects you don't have the capacity to understand--even after 6 years-- that all along you've been asking for the type of jaw that drops down from the back and flares out a lot from the front.

Either go through with your decision and the plan that arose or take some time off and find some remedial tutor that teaches slow kids about simple geometric relationships.

Woops, here is the morph photo (again, way too much chin projection but the lower jaw angle looks good):

https://i.imgur.com/dUZfMtP.jpg

And here is the deal: I want the result to look GOOD overall. I want to be an objectively better-looking male after the surgery, so the reason I'm apprehensive about the extremeness of the jaw implant design is because of how many people have told me that it would only serve to RUIN my looks. This was never about "forcing" any sort of look on my face. Yes, I realize that guys like Henry Cavill and male models have looks that are considered highly attractive, but if that exact same look (to the fullest extent of it) wouldn't actually make me better looking, then what's the point? Why not just stick with augmenting the chin and the cheeks and hopefully improving the eyes, since those traits could obviously use improvement?

[SurgerySoon]

BTW, when I spoke to him a few weeks ago and told him about my reservations regarding the jaw implant, he said just doing custom cheek and chin implants would be an option on surgery day as well, so that's why I'm talking as if I'm still trying to decide.

[kavan]

OK, I told you I would do a morph so I did that.

Your photos are all different because of the lighting. But the salient thing is that there are 2 different sides of your face (which is case for everyone) and although most people DO have some asymmetry to jaws and cheeks, most of yours is to the eyes. The eye that looks more prominent than the other one, also seems to sit LOWER on your face. The midface implants and lift (where I'm assuming more projection would be given on the side of the more prominent eye)  would tend to make that eye look less prominent. So, some asymmetry to the eyes would tend to be made less, mitigated. But it wouldn't be just like that morph you got where the morpher took your good eye 'flipped' it and mirrored it on to the other side. The eye I call the 'bad' one would recede into the background more via the augment there. But it would still tend to sit lower. Another way of saying this would be that a straight horizont would not pass through both pupils as would be the case if that area were perfectly symmetrical.

The photo sets show mirror symmetry for each side of face on left and right of middle photo.
First set shows a line passing through on pupil (in middle photo) doesn't also pass through the pupil of the other eye. Mirror symmetry photos show you have a 'good' side and a 'bad' side. Everyone does to some extent.

The other photos with the black background were better for morphing because the lighting is more uniform (or less un-uniform) than the top photos. Since you already know, the 'bad eye' is more 'buggy' than the other one, I pointed out it was also lower than the other one and labeled 'bad side', 'good side'. I think anyone looking at what you would look like if you had perfect symmetry (but no cheek or jaw augmentation) would agree that the good side with mirror symmetry looks pretty good from the front. I don't think anyone would think the 'bad side' with mirror symmetry would look bad (nor do I). I'm just using black and white terms here.

What I did was take both halves of your face and morphed them separately. Using the implants as basic guidelines. Then I 'flipped' each side and 'mirrored' it to get the mirror morphs. Then I took a side from each of the mirror morphs and 'spliced' them together to get the middle one.

It's not a prediction of your outcome. But it does bring out the midface as is the intent of the implants there and it also drops and 'wing flairs' out the jaw angles as to give SOME idea about the basic AIM of the implants. It does blend in your eyes more even though the 'bad' eye is still lower.

So, what I wanted to do here is show SOMETHING in the venue of what those implants can GENERALLY do which should make it a little easier to see 'something' as to their aim. Again, not a 'prediction'. But enough for you to see if you would like something like that on your face. Although you don't look like Clavill in it, it is the general type of midface structure and jaw he has. Hope this helps.


Disclosure:  I'm IRISH and we start early for St. Patrick's day. So, this should be my last serious post until a few days.

[SurgerySoon]

OK, I told you I would do a morph so I did that.

Your photos are all different because of the lighting. But the salient thing is that there are 2 different sides of your face (which is case for everyone) and although most people DO have some asymmetry to jaws and cheeks, most of yours is to the eyes. The eye that looks more prominent than the other one, also seems to sit LOWER on your face. The midface implants and lift (where I'm assuming more projection would be given on the side of the more prominent eye)  would tend to make that eye look less prominent. So, some asymmetry to the eyes would tend to be made less, mitigated. But it wouldn't be just like that morph you got where the morpher took your good eye 'flipped' it and mirrored it on to the other side. The eye I call the 'bad' one would recede into the background more via the augment there. But it would still tend to sit lower. Another way of saying this would be that a straight horizont would not pass through both pupils as would be the case if that area were perfectly symmetrical.

The photo sets show mirror symmetry for each side of face on left and right of middle photo.
First set shows a line passing through on pupil (in middle photo) doesn't also pass through the pupil of the other eye. Mirror symmetry photos show you have a 'good' side and a 'bad' side. Everyone does to some extent.

The other photos with the black background were better for morphing because the lighting is more uniform (or less un-uniform) than the top photos. Since you already know, the 'bad eye' is more 'buggy' than the other one, I pointed out it was also lower than the other one and labeled 'bad side', 'good side'. I think anyone looking at what you would look like if you had perfect symmetry (but no cheek or jaw augmentation) would agree that the good side with mirror symmetry looks pretty good from the front. I don't think anyone would think the 'bad side' with mirror symmetry would look bad (nor do I). I'm just using black and white terms here.

What I did was take both halves of your face and morphed them separately. Using the implants as basic guidelines. Then I 'flipped' each side and 'mirrored' it to get the mirror morphs. Then I took a side from each of the mirror morphs and 'spliced' them together to get the middle one.

It's not a prediction of your outcome. But it does bring out the midface as is the intent of the implants there and it also drops and 'wing flairs' out the jaw angles as to give SOME idea about the basic AIM of the implants. It does blend in your eyes more even though the 'bad' eye is still lower.

So, what I wanted to do here is show SOMETHING in the venue of what those implants can GENERALLY do which should make it a little easier to see 'something' as to their aim. Again, not a 'prediction'. But enough for you to see if you would like something like that on your face. Although you don't look like Clavill in it, it is the general type of midface structure and jaw he has. Hope this helps.


Disclosure:  I'm IRISH and we start early for St. Patrick's day. So, this should be my last serious post until a few days.

Thanks for creating the morphs for me and for providing such a detailed analysis. To be honest, I'm not sure if I like the look of having such a strong jaw; it seems to make my head look blocky and... obtuse?... if that's the word for it. I can't quite put my finger on what I don't really like about it, but maybe it's the fact that in the original photos where I have the steeper jawline (I.e., my current face), I just look a bit more sophisticated or something.

If you had to estimate/guess, by how many mm would you say you lowered my jaw angles in the morph? It looks like it was by a lot more than 5-7 mm on each side, but it's hard to tell. I think I would definitely benefit by *some* degree of lowering of the jaw angles, but it would have to be done conservatively so that my head doesn't take on a blocky, square appearance. Of course, I'm not sure if Dr. Y's wraparound design would qualify as "conservative" or not.

Hope you enjoy St. Patrick's Day, BTW.

[kavan]

Thanks for creating the morphs for me and for providing such a detailed analysis. To be honest, I'm not sure if I like the look of having such a strong jaw; it seems to make my head look blocky and... obtuse?... if that's the word for it. I can't quite put my finger on what I don't really like about it, but maybe it's the fact that in the original photos where I have the steeper jawline (I.e., my current face), I just look a bit more sophisticated or something.

If you had to estimate/guess, by how many mm would you say you lowered my jaw angles in the morph? It looks like it was by a lot more than 5-7 mm on each side, but it's hard to tell. I think I would definitely benefit by *some* degree of lowering of the jaw angles, but it would have to be done conservatively so that my head doesn't take on a blocky, square appearance. Of course, I'm not sure if Dr. Y's wraparound design would qualify as "conservative" or not.

Hope you enjoy St. Patrick's Day, BTW.

Well, a lot of the 'I want the MM has' requests for the jaw can end up looking blocky on guys who don't have all the other proportions the MM has. Most of what a MM has are those 'impossible' eyes as in possible to be born with but impossible for a doc to re-create.

[SurgerySoon]

Well, a lot of the 'I want the MM has' requests for the jaw can end up looking blocky on guys who don't have all the other proportions the MM has. Most of what a MM has are those 'impossible' eyes as in possible to be born with but impossible for a doc to re-create.

I guess I'll just have to decide on the morning of surgery on whether I'd like to get the jaw implant or not. The funny thing is, when I decided to go with Dr. Y for the surgery a few months ago, I had actually decided to leave the jaw alone (due to the same concerns/considerations I've voiced here) and just do custom midface + chin implants. Then a few weeks ago, I did my skull CT scan and sent it to Dr. Y. When Dr. Y's staff got back to me a couple weeks later with the implant designs, I was surprised to see that he had designed a full wraparound jaw implant, even though I had (thus far) only paid the surgical fees for chin + midface implant/midface lift surgery. So I'm not sure if it was a communication error or if it was a last-minute attempt to "upsell" me on a full jaw implant, but either way, having a custom-designed wraparound jaw implant (sort of) right in front of me caused me to ask the question -- should I just go ahead with the full wraparound jaw implant after all, instead of just midface + chin implants?

So anyways, that's where I am now -- in the position of trying to decide whether or not to just go for the full wraparound implant or leave the jaw alone and stick with my original plan of just augmenting the cheeks and chin. I really like the idea of improving all my facial features that could possibly be improved in one single surgery and not worrying about wondering afterwards if I could/should have also improved "X" trait, but if any form of jaw augmentation would actually be a blow to my aesthetics, then I should probably just leave it alone. Then again, if it would be an overall aesthetic improvement, then I'd hate to leave a finished, custom-designed wraparound implant on the table (so to speak) and miss out on whatever aesthetic improvements I would derive from it.

I know it's basically asking you to take a shot in the dark, but in your opinion, will Dr. Y's jaw implant design result in my head looking as blocky as the morph you made? When you created the morph, were you trying to lower the jaw angles by the same dimensions (5 mm and 7 mm) that Dr. Y's implant design lowers them by?

[kavan]

I guess I'll just have to decide on the morning of surgery on whether I'd like to get the jaw implant or not. The funny thing is, when I decided to go with Dr. Y for the surgery a few months ago, I had actually decided to leave the jaw alone (due to the same concerns/considerations I've voiced here) and just do custom midface + chin implants. Then a few weeks ago, I did my skull CT scan and sent it to Dr. Y. When Dr. Y's staff got back to me a couple weeks later with the implant designs, I was surprised to see that he had designed a full wraparound jaw implant, even though I had (thus far) only paid the surgical fees for chin + midface implant/midface lift surgery. So I'm not sure if it was a communication error or if it was a last-minute attempt to "upsell" me on a full jaw implant, but either way, having a custom-designed wraparound jaw implant (sort of) right in front of me caused me to ask the question -- should I just go ahead with the full wraparound jaw implant after all, instead of just midface + chin implants?

So anyways, that's where I am now -- in the position of trying to decide whether or not to just go for the full wraparound implant or leave the jaw alone and stick with my original plan of just augmenting the cheeks and chin. I really like the idea of improving all my facial features that could possibly be improved in one single surgery and not worrying about wondering afterwards if I could/should have also improved "X" trait, but if any form of jaw augmentation would actually be a blow to my aesthetics, then I should probably just leave it alone. Then again, if it would be an overall aesthetic improvement, then I'd hate to leave a finished, custom-designed wraparound implant on the table (so to speak) and miss out on whatever aesthetic improvements I would derive from it.

I know it's basically asking you to take a shot in the dark, but in your opinion, will Dr. Y's jaw implant design result in my head looking as blocky as the morph you made? When you created the morph, were you trying to lower the jaw angles by the same dimensions (5 mm and 7 mm) that Dr. Y's implant design lowers them by?

I was trying to give approximate drop plus width in BALL PARK. Also, I told you in one of my earlier posts that guys asking for the parts (usually jaw) a MM can be asking to look blocky but they don't realize it.  Nobody looks like a MM unless they have those eyes that docs can't recreate.

[SurgerySoon]

I was trying to give approximate drop plus width in BALL PARK. Also, I told you in one of my earlier posts that guys asking for the parts (usually jaw) a MM can be asking to look blocky but they don't realize it.  Nobody looks like a MM unless they have those eyes that docs can't recreate.

@Kagan I was just trying to do some basic measurements a few minutes ago based on eyeballing the changes you made in the morph, and it looks like my jaw angles were each probably dropped by about an inch (or maybe a little less)? Would you say this is roughly correct? The reason I ask is because it looks like they were lowered by way more than 5 mm and 7 mm each, but I could be wrong. Just curious...

[ben from UK]

you go for the wrap around and then you're not satisfied and take it out, it can cause all kind of problems. Chin ptosis, disrupted masseters, scar tissue, etc. Especially if you're not in your 20s anymore. So be carefull with it. Also, a morph is almost never the same as the result after real surgery. Like I said, scar tissue will be built around a silicone implant, there is a part underneath the upper part of the masseter, it can make it look bloated. This is a good example of the difference between the morph and real result:

https://www.realself.com/question/long-swelling-completely-after-jaw-implants

You see the jaw angle is less angular than the before and his face is more boxy, although there is still some swelling.

His morph was ideal, but you probably can't get the morph through implants. Weather it's because of the design or material, maybe it was too big, I don't know. Maybe only with fillers, cause fillers target only the jawangle, while implants need to go higher than the jawangle to be able to fix them (but that part risks pushing the masseter outwards, making the face seem bloated).