How are surgeons getting their reputations?

[Optimistic]

Example: Albino Triaca has a great reputation, and yes the results in his publications are amazing, he also invented the chin wing. However, like all maxfac surgeons it's incredibly hard to find actual patient results on forums and blogs.

Similarly, Mommaerts somehow has gotten an amazing reputation yet I still have only ever seen a couple of his patients.

With so few results out here I'm pretty baffled as to how one surgeon suddenly becomes considered better than another. It has been suggested by a number of people that many surgeons have forum shills who go around posting to increase their prestige etc. How else would someone like Van Der Dussen get such a reptuation?? Or Alfaro???

[notrain]

it depends on what reputation you are referring to. if it is among patients, then it is via forums/websites such as realself, missj and here.

if you mean reputation amongst professionals i.e. other surgeons, that is done based on publications.

what i did when i picked my surgeon was to look up all the surgeons in my area (20km radius) and enter their names in medical databases such as pubmed (i used german equivalents but you get my point). i simply picked the guy with the most stuff published. he is completely unknown in the forum and website sphere but he has the credentials and is very well known by other professionals in the area.

i wouldn't get surgery with someone just because i read on a forum that he is good. that's a recipe for disaster.

[Optimistic]

it depends on what reputation you are referring to. if it is among patients, then it is via forums/websites such as realself, missj and here.

if you mean reputation amongst professionals i.e. other surgeons, that is done based on publications.

what i did when i picked my surgeon was to look up all the surgeons in my area (20km radius) and enter their names in medical databases such as pubmed (i used german equivalents but you get my point). i simply picked the guy with the most stuff published. he is completely unknown in the forum and website sphere but he has the credentials and is very well known by other professionals in the area.

i wouldn't get surgery with someone just because i read on a forum that he is good. that's a recipe for disaster.

May I ask what your opinion of Triaca is?

[Gregor Samsa]

it depends on what reputation you are referring to. if it is among patients, then it is via forums/websites such as realself, missj and here.

if you mean reputation amongst professionals i.e. other surgeons, that is done based on publications.

what i did when i picked my surgeon was to look up all the surgeons in my area (20km radius) and enter their names in medical databases such as pubmed (i used german equivalents but you get my point). i simply picked the guy with the most stuff published. he is completely unknown in the forum and website sphere but he has the credentials and is very well known by other professionals in the area.

i wouldn't get surgery with someone just because i read on a forum that he is good. that's a recipe for disaster.

Just because they have a good reputation amongst their peers doesn't mean that they're a good surgeon either. Just look at Mommaerts: He often gets invited to speak at large conferences where other well-known surgeons like Triaca attend and he gets in contact with a lot of other surgeons through his position as a professor and teacher (he even travels to other countries to train surgeons there). Compare that to his reputation online nowadays where people call him a butcher etc.

[notrain]

May I ask what your opinion of Triaca is?

I haven't spoken with him personally. But his publications and before and after showcases are very impressive and he invented the chin wing procedure. I think he is probably the best surgeon in europe which is reflected in his pricing. That doesn't mean he can guarantee a perfect outcome but I think the element of random (bad) luck in a surgery outcome is minimal with him. Also, if you need to redo/undo a previous jaw surgery in europe, you will most likely hear his name come up.

That's not to say a lesser known surgeon can't produce good results, it's just that you pay a premium for consistent good results since you don't want to have to do this more than once.

edit:
@gregorsamsa

you are right, of course. there simply is no way of knowing what the outcome will be beforehand. the only solution is to have multiple consultations and to research the surgeons. then pick one you feel most comfortable with. if at all possible, pick one who had good results with similar cases to your own. but there will always be some risk left, you can't make a perfect decision.

[Optimistic]

I haven't spoken with him personally. But his publications and before and after showcases are very impressive and he invented the chin wing procedure. I think he is probably the best surgeon in europe which is reflected in his pricing. That doesn't mean he can guarantee a perfect outcome but I think the element of random (bad) luck in a surgery outcome is minimal with him. Also, if you need to redo/undo a previous jaw surgery in europe, you will most likely hear his name come up.

That's not to say a lesser known surgeon can't produce good results, it's just that you pay a premium for consistent good results since you don't want to have to do this more than once.

edit:
@gregorsamsa

you are right, of course. there simply is no way of knowing what the outcome will be beforehand. the only solution is to have multiple consultations and to research the surgeons. then pick one you feel most comfortable with. if at all possible, pick one who had good results with similar cases to your own. but there will always be some risk left, you can't make a perfect decision.

Thanks for the insight. That's pretty much how I feel right now, and I'm willing to spend the extra just to reduce that risk. plus it looks like (even if he didn't invent) he uses a wide range of less common procedures such as chin visor.

[Gregor Samsa]

How much more expensive is he though? Some of these surgeons from Switzerland like Sailer charge more than even Arnett and Gunson.

[Optimistic]

How much more expensive is he though? Some of these surgeons from Switzerland like Sailer charge more than even Arnett and Gunson.

According to one person on here Triaca charges 12.5k CHF for a Chin Wing, to give an idea. I've read quotes for proper jaw surgery being much more expensive again. So if you needed bimax and other things then I imagine it being a rather expensive ordeal. However for just one or two things it should be manageable for most people.

I'll be consulting him this month hopefully and I'll definitely post my quotes if that comes off. Triaca is away until the 15th, should get an e-mail from his secretary then to make a time to skype consult.

[backward lowerjaw]

i didntv realise triaca did skype for consultations, thats good to know how much does he charge?

[Tiny]

i didntv realise triaca did skype for consultations, thats good to know how much does he charge?

Oooooh, interesting. I'm curious too

[Optimistic]

Oooooh, interesting. I'm curious too

I just booked one then and haven't been asked to pay so far 

[Gregor Samsa]

I just booked one then and haven't been asked to pay so far 

I've learned the hard way that it's apparently acceptable to not tell you what the consultation costs and then hand you a hefty bill when you leave. It doesn't sound legal to me but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

[Optimistic]

I've learned the hard way that it's apparently acceptable to not tell you what the consultation costs and then hand you a hefty bill when you leave. It doesn't sound legal to me but I wouldn't be surprised if it is.

Well they can't do that if it's online! 

Either way I am expecting an e-mail soon asking for payment. We'll see how things pan out.

A few people have asked me to ask questions on their behalf but truth be told I have so many questions of my own I need addressed that I doubt I'll get around to it in the time we have.

[Tiny]

I've been to many consultations where the price of the x-ray was only revealed after it was already taken. I believe something similar happened to celticcavegirl as well.

Yes, it did, with Paul Johnson.  I asked beforehand if the 160GBP costs included Xrays and was told it did.  After the consult I got a bill, as expected for 160GBP, which I paid. (And at the end of the appointment I also asked, if there were any additional costs, and was told no)  The I got an unpleasant surprise a month later in the form of 230GBP bill for X rays.

However, I was told it was because he had a temp PA at the time who wasn't up to date with everything.  So think it was a genuine error

[backward lowerjaw]

Celticavegirl what's your opinion on Paul Johnson or Henri Thuau as surgeons? I'm looking at maxilomandibular advancment these would be the two I'm narrowed down to.