So is it really proved that extraction orthodontics damage faces?

[Dontknowwhattodo]

Up until now I believed that extraction orthodontics damage faces but then I ran into these articles and videos,

https://www.forceint.com/courses/sweeping-away-myths

http://www.oralhealthgroup.com/news/orthodontics-more-than-just-pretty-smiles/1000145697/?&er=NA

Ive searched and thought a lot about it and it made sense that extraction orthodontics can damage faces and I'm pretty sure a lot of people know John Mew and that 60 minutes episode about his method of orthodontics and how two identical twins ended up  looking different after different methods (Extraction and non-extraction) of orthodontics but then the links that I posted above bring researches as proofs that extraction orthodontics doesn't damage faces. What do u guys think about this?

[LoveofScotch]

When in doubt, I would keep as many of your own, original parts as possible.

[sean89]

Why would anyone get extractions over and above SARPE and mandibular widening with DO?

From what Kizarq wrote, SARPE is pretty invasive and involves a difficult recovery. It also has to be carried out under general anasthesia, and for that reason, is more dangerous than extractions and a lot more expensive given that you need to factor in the cost of braces as well.

I was presented with the option and declined because I didn't think my palate was sufficiently narrow enough to spend an extra 3 grand when braces can push the teeth out to address mild cases.

 Of course, for more severe cases of narrowness and crowding then SARPE is the gold standard but extractions are a better means to facilitate the orthodontic correction of large overjets (for adults who don't want to undergo jaw surgery - obviously teenagers should be more aversive to extraction therapy). Again, my overjet is relatively mild so I opted for interproximal reduction and braces ahead of extractions and SARPE.

[Tiny]

Why would anyone get extractions over and above SARPE and mandibular widening with DO?

How many places offer mandibular widening with DO?  And how many people want to go through that?!

I'm not sure.  In my case, if I hadn't had extractions I would have the same number of lower teeth as there wouldn't have been room for my wisdom teeth and they would never have erupted.  As it was, after I had molars removed they came through fully.  If I hadn't, I'd probably looking at impacted wisdom teeth surgery and a lot of people have this and they're "good looking".  As for upper extractions, I wouldn't say they've led to any midface issues...

I think a lot of it depends on the age you have the extraction.  They're going to have a much worse effect when done on a boy of 12, who has a lot of growing still to do.  However, I had my extractions done at around 14.5 and my bones were done growing at 15.

My original ortho actually still has my records, I plan on getting them sent to my new doc.  I think I had my first ceph at 12 or 13, so if they still have it I will be able to compare that scan to my current which will be interesting

[Dontknowwhattodo]

How many places offer mandibular widening with DO?  And how many people want to go through that?!

I think a lot of it depends on the age you have the extraction.  They're going to have a much worse effect when done on a boy of 12, who has a lot of growing still to do.

That's really scary, what effect can extraction have on a 12 year old? Ive seen that 60 minutes episode and those twins but that is just one example and its not enough. Do you have any other evidences that show a 12 year old can get hurt by it?

[LoveofScotch]

I would say we were all about 13-14 years old (I was 14, maybe even 14 1/2). Also, all female. Not sure if/how that comes into play.

[Dontknowwhattodo]

My problem is that I dont have any pictures of me back then when I had my teeth extracted and my braces on. I have a narrow face and narrow smile and all those other problems that are attributed to extraction orthodontics such as TMD. I dont have my own pictures but I have my brothers who had the similar problem and was treated around the same age 4 years after me. His face right now is much narrower than back then. He was 12/13 years old in the before extraction pictures and in a series of pictures that I have from him when he is 14/15 you can clearly tell that his face is narrower. and now that he is 18 I can see that his face is narrower than in those pictures when he was 12/13. so is it really extraction that caused this for sure?

[LoveofScotch]

Dontknowwhattodo,

Even if you had pictures from when you were younger, I just don't see how that would change your course of action now.

[Dontknowwhattodo]

Dontknowwhattodo,

Even if you had pictures from when you were younger, I just don't see how that would change your course of action now.

What do you mean?

[jusken]

I had extractions when I was 17.  I was late into braces, I got them put on when I was 14.  Since then I've had mixed feelings about it.

Today, there really is no doubt in my mind that extractions were the only option.  Had I gotten braces sooner, who knows - who cares in my case.  My arch was extremely narrow after the extractions and that round of orthodontics.  I was miserable.  But after jaw surgery and another set of braces, my arch is much wider and there is barely enough room in my mouth for my teeth.  There simply wouldn't be room for 4 more teeth.

If treated soon enough, perhaps there's never a need for extractions.  But, I wasn't one of those cases.  I consider myself somewhat lucky to not have a super narrow arch anymore and not have a huge open bite.

[LoveofScotch]

Dontknowwhattodo,

So, I just quickly buzzed through your posts. From what you wrote, it looks like you're dealing with issues with asymmetry. Correct?

I'm just saying, at this stage (assuming you're done growing), I'm not really sure the 'why' is hugely important. Are your asymmetries from extractions and/or orthodontics? Maybe, maybe not? I just don't think that changes anything now. When we are done growing everything becomes kind of locked (for lack of a better way to put it). Even some doctors that advocate opening the extraction spaces back up, then placing implants, acknowledge the potential need for surgery, too.

My point is that I don't think we can know 'for sure,' but the good thing is that's not necessarily a prerequisite for what steps are taken next.

Cheers!

[Dontknowwhattodo]

Dontknowwhattodo,

So, I just quickly buzzed through your posts. From what you wrote, it looks like you're dealing with issues with asymmetry. Correct?

I'm just saying, at this stage (assuming you're done growing), I'm not really sure the 'why' is hugely important. Are your asymmetries from extractions and/or orthodontics? Maybe, maybe not? I just don't think that changes anything now. When we are done growing everything becomes kind of locked (for lack of a better way to put it). Even some doctors that advocate opening the extraction spaces back up, then placing implants, acknowledge the potential need for surgery, too.

My point is that I don't think we can know 'for sure,' but the good thing is that's not necessarily a prerequisite for what steps are taken next.

Cheers!

yeah but then it really matters to me to know that if extractions had anything to do it with it, right? so if I had my pictures I could have told that if they made a difference or was I just like that even before extractions or not, u know it really matters to know what caused a problem, whenever ur facing a problem u usually try to answer two questions, what is the cause and how can it be fixed right? For the fix I know that probably there is no way, for the cause If its extractions and orthodontics then its really messed up, then I would put it as one of my main goals in life to stop this from happening to other children

[Alue]

I think a lot of it depends on the age you have the extraction.  They're going to have a much worse effect when done on a boy of 12, who has a lot of growing still to do.  However, I had my extractions done at around 14.5 and my bones were done growing at 15.

Sigh, I had 7 teeth extracted (four of them were permanent) and had my adult canines exposed and pulled down to (expedite) treatment when I was 13.  It just makes me angry and sick to my stomach to think about, knowing how it all turned out.  In some cases extractions are the only option, but I think a lot of orthodontists are just outright predators. 

[dantheman]

Why did you guys have your upper bicuspids pulled? Just out of curiosity.

[LoveofScotch]

I think part of it was just how my orthodontist practiced. She pulled bicuspids; that was within her wheelhouse. We were referred out to have them pulled so I don't think it had anything to do with profit. With that said, there's no way I could have comfortably fit BOTH my bicuspids and wisdom teeth. I just wish things had been structured differently and I had been a more informed patient, but live and learn.