Mommaerts Mystery - please read it

[Modigliani]

Intern may not be the right word, but it's pretty common for surgeons to receive training by working alongside an experienced surgeon even if they've already finished their official education.

Indeed, especially in a teaching hospital.

[falcao]

GS: Yes, I get your point, but we have to be precise with the language. Since it's a university hospital where the centre is located, people may get the wrong idea that these are some 3rd year med students operating around.

And I share your experience - if Buttner did yours and my plan, and if Mommaerts had such good "technical" abilities (as suggested above), why didn't he pick up the fact that in your case the plan will not deliver and in my case will be an absolute irrefutable failure. He had the chance to revise it when he discussed it with me. Also, I share your experience of seeing his disagreeable face upon waking up (in severe pain, by the way).

[geijutsu]

For starters, I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression that I'm defending MM. I was one of the very first and few members who expressed doubts towards his practice, long before the negative reviews came pouring as of late.

I also do not want you to get the impression that I'm somehow not taking your past problems with MM seriously, as I can only imagine how infuriating it would be to not only lose money, but also have your facial appearance at stake.

I was just speculating earlier that he employs interns or residents or call them whatever you want because it was very strange that the streak of complaints all came out in the same time frame. Not to mention that he has very comprehensive experience in the field of maxillofacial surgery. Isn't that why you chose him in the first place? So it was perplexing that he would f**k up so badly like something as simple as a BSSO given how much experience he has in the said procedure. One of MM's past unhappy patients mentioned on the missj forum after I mentioned that interns that MM does in fact have residents who are with him in the operation room. Doesn't say if they operate on the patients, but it was mentioned in his surgical report.

I also think that you implying that I'm silly was uncalled for and immature.

[Modigliani]

The thing is though that his surgical plans are doomed to fail from the start, that's where the problems lie. In my opinion, he's relying solely on computers to come up with the plans without taking the time to go over them and use his experience and judgement to tweak them.

I requested my ceph tracing from one of his flunkies a couple of weeks post op, it was literally just a computer printout with none of the usual  scribbled numbers and notes. I'd literally never seen one like it before.

[geijutsu]

The thing is though that his surgical plans are doomed to fail from the start, that's where the problems lie. In my opinion, he's relying solely on computers to come up with the plans without taking the time to go over them and use his experience and judgement to tweak them.

I requested my ceph tracing from one of his flunkies a couple of weeks post op, it was literally just a computer printout with none of the usual  scribbled numbers and notes. I'd literally never seen one like it before.

Exactly what do you mean he relies on computers? Does he just morph the faces using photoshop, or is it some sort of a software that's targeted for maxillofacial work?

[Modigliani]

Exactly what do you mean he relies on computers? Does he just morph the faces using photoshop, or is it some sort of a software that's targeted for maxillofacial work?

The facial measurements are fed into a computer and a plan is churned out. From what I can gather speaking to other surgeons this is standard practice but should be used as a guide only.

[geijutsu]

The facial measurements are fed into a computer and a plan is churned out. From what I can gather speaking to other surgeons this is standard practice but should be used as a guide only.

So you think that MM's problem has to do more with the planning rather than the intra-operative work, right?

[Modigliani]

So you think that MM's problem has to do more with the planning rather than the intra-operative work, right?

Mainly yes, although his work itself is sloppy, according to other surgeons.

[Optimistic]

I don't know who came up with the "interns" idea, but that is plain wrong. First of all, he operates on private basis within the hospital, in what he called "European Face Centre" or something like that. He is allowed to have advertisements showing face lifts etc on a big screen in the waiting room precisely for this reason - he operates on commercial basis within that centre.  I don't know if he does other public work within the hospital with domestic patients and I don't care.

In the centre itself, there are no interns. The people GS refers to are people he employs and form part of his team - there is Dr Buttner (if I remember his name correctly), who is a maxillo-facial surgeon - fully accredited and probably older than Zarrinbal, for example. So, most definitely not an intern. There is another female doctor whose name I can't remember, and she's an orthodontist. Again, not an intern. And there are the nurses.

In the operating room, I can hardly imagine interns operating on foreign patients who paid privately for the surgery in the commercial wing of the hospital. Imagine the legal liability of such practice. If there are interns in the hospital and they operate with him, I imagine they operate on domestic patients who do not pay any fee for the surgery (just like in UK and most other European countries, they are free of charge for them).

So, no. Another silly idea floating around in his defense being repeated by people who have never met him or had anything to do with him.

Belgium is a real country with real laws. The hospital has its team of lawyers and risk management strategies. It's beyond belief such practice where "interns" would operate on full-fee paying foreign patients who are treated in the commercial wing of the hospital that has its own name.

He has explicitly stated himself in e-mail that he receives a set wage from the University.

Is it not possible that he is head of a privately-run, university-owned wing of the hospital? Or some other such arrangement

[Rico]

I mentioned on the other forum that I suspect MM is allowing interns to perform the surgeries on his patients as of late. Few hiccups can be excusable, but botched cases from a surgeons who's got extensive experience seems rather strange, so it's possible that it was one of his interns who was doing the work.

I don't think that MM is bad in the technical sense, it's just that with the interns situation and his assembly-line approach, I would steer clear from him. I prefer a surgeon who takes his time planning the surgery beforehand and doesn't leave a rookie slice open your face after they knock you out.

hmm I asked about this. He told me, that he will operate me. Could he lied me ?

[Rico]

Exactly what do you mean he relies on computers? Does he just morph the faces using photoshop, or is it some sort of a software that's targeted for maxillofacial work?

what I know they have simulation programs based on CAD

[Rico]

Optmistic: "01/10/14 - Last night I spilt spaghetti sauce on my chin for the very first time in my life and cried."

tell me more about it

[MrFox]

He has explicitly stated himself in e-mail that he receives a set wage from the University.

Is it not possible that he is head of a privately-run, university-owned wing of the hospital? Or some other such arrangement

Yes and that he has no incentive to take on patients as it is just hassle for him or something like that.
It's no wonder that he doesn't take time with the planning, he concentrates all his efforts into being as aloof and offensive as possible.
His behaviour supports what he said about his wage.

[Optimistic]

Yes and that he has no incentive to take on patients as it is just hassle for him or something like that.
It's no wonder that he doesn't take time with the planning, he concentrates all his efforts into being as aloof and offensive as possible.
His behaviour supports what he said about his wage.

To be fair I found him very pleasant when I met him.

[Rico]

To be fair I found him very pleasant when I met him.

Me too. Very kind and he spared me 1h 20minutes in his private clinic in Sint Marteen Latem

 However he told me that his clinic will send query about payment procedure to my Poish National Health System. In Poland NHS is required (by law) and very expensive. That insurance cover all possible surgeries teoretically. Practically only simple ones. You can take another one, but very few people can afford 2 and more health insurances
However our NHS is totally fu*** up.  I told to MM that it would be nice, but its impossible. I knew that I had to pay myself. He told me he will try...

after one month I wrote message to him about that issue. He answered me that NHS should give my money back (I have to pay myself), but he / his clinic have not sent any query to polish NHS..... so why he proposed that ?  cant understand