opinion on Dr. Weston's research

[notrain]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I can't find any proof that such a selection bias existed back in the paleolithic age.

I was talking about Dr. Weston Price's research. He looked at the teeth of adults and elderly to reach his conclusions so therefore his conclusions are biased towards the fit part of the population as he cannot examine people who are dead.

[molestrip]

There's few ways to get nice facial development and lots of ways to not. Genetics appears to be one among many factors. Sadly, I wasn't able to convince my wife of the importance of pre-natal nutrition when she was pregnant with both kids. Though she did breast feed both, they both have issues already and that as young kids. Sleep, breathing, nutrition, and other health factors all throughout childhood all have an impact.

[Lazlo]

There's few ways to get nice facial development and lots of ways to not. Genetics appears to be one among many factors. Sadly, I wasn't able to convince my wife of the importance of pre-natal nutrition when she was pregnant with both kids. Though she did breast feed both, they both have issues already and that as young kids. Sleep, breathing, nutrition, and other health factors all throughout childhood all have an impact.

Absolutely. You have to get on this stuff immediately and have them examined by orthodontists who are very familiar with double stage orthodontics where they widen the palate so that there is no crowding. Then jaw surgery is not a problem later when they're 18. And of course sucking thumbs etc. is horrible, but good nutrition and a lot of exercise is important. You have a responsibility to your children to fix these issues and fortunately you have the knowledge to do so since it will impact their lives heavily in the future.

[molestrip]

I'm finding that practitioners aren't eager to help my kids actually. My daughter has an open overlapping bite already even, at only 5 years old! An ENT agreed her tonsils needed to be removed but that's it. Her turbinates are mostly shut so I'm taking her to an allergist finally and I'm hoping her skeletal structure will revert now. Her post-op sleep study was ok (AHI of .7). Stanford papers suggest expansion too but opinions vary on whether that's a good idea. The claim is that if you widen the maxilla then the mandible will follow. It's a pretty big gamble to take since you could easily end up with a crossbite that needs to be surgically narrowed later on.

My plan right now is to wait until she turns 7 and then go to the Stanford orthodontist for an opinion. She seems to be the only ortho who's not crazy that treats young children. I guess we'll widen if she seems confident it's a good idea. Start treating the allergies and watch for signs of sleep apnea relapse. Causes of facial deformity are well known at this point, prevention seems to be an active research topic. Very frustrating.

[terry947]

molestrip google orthotropics. Disregard what people say but, orthotropic is not bulls**t. When your child is young, around 7-10 it works miracles.

[molestrip]

I've researched Orthotropics some. Yeah, opinions are quite varied there. Dr Mew posted his email address on the FB group and I thought about emailing him even. Here's some opinions I've gotten about it:

- It's snake oil.
- It requires unrealistic compliance.
- Tipping teeth rather than moving bone.
- Traditional orthodontics can do the same, you just need the right guy.

What I haven't found is someone who went through the process. Nor have I found much information about how well tested the treatment is. Some of the stuff on Dr Mew's practice is suspect, such as NCR. There is someone a few hours away who offers Biobloc though and I'd consider getting an opinion. What's the basis for your opinion?

[terry947]

Well moles trip, it depends who your treating. NCR is only done on adults and its experimental since no one knows if decent change is possible in adults. As for children there's evidence that bioloc helps.

Unrealistic compliance =real change.

Why are we all here? The issue isn't with teeth but with actual facial growth. I'm behind the idea that each human could have potentially grown to a golden ratio. Facial growth that diverts from the ideal ratio is caused my environmental factors, not genetic ( in my opinion). 

The way orthotropics helps is:

1) expands the jaw, if it's narrow
2) train the child to keep its mouth shut
3) trains the child the maintain tongue posture

I'd say go see an orthotropics specialist. It's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

[PloskoPlus]

The claim is that if you widen the maxilla then the mandible will follow. It's a pretty big gamble to take since you could easily end up with a crossbite that needs to be surgically narrowed later on.

I wore some kind of plate at the age of 7 for some months.  I don't know what the purpose of it was.  Cure my underbite?  Anyway, when I had a Le Fort I recently my upper jaw had to be narrowed at the back, otherwise it would have been to wide for my lower jaw as it came forward.

[terry947]

@molestrip. I think they widen the maxilla only for the tongue to fit up there naturally. If your daughter has enough space for her tongue then she doesn't need to widen her maxilla.

Also check if she breathes through her nose during the day and night. At her age open mouth posture will have negative consequences.

[molestrip]

Yes her tongue is too big for her mouth right now. I've discussed widening her maxilla with a few orthos but their response was that she'd develop a cross-bite. He mandible is comparably narrow. She doesn't nose breath well. My wife is always making excuses about it, saying she just has a cold or something like that. We have an allergist appointment in two weeks to get started. It's really hard to diagnose nose breathing problems because it's not black and white. It's like sometimes yes sometimes not. My 3yo son mouth breathes too btw. Sigh.

[terry947]

The number 1 goal should be for her to nose breathe, keep here mouth closed with teeth in light contact and rest her tongue on her upper palate.. I don't see how expanding the maxilla would cause a cross bite to happen. Also since she's still young I'm pretty sure they could expand the mandible with an appliance at the same time.

[molestrip]

Mandible can't be expanded. Sutures fuse at 1 I'm told. Bones grow in harmony so there's reason to believe that expanding the maxilla past the mandible would result in some movement. My only concern is that there's not a lot of data regarding the practice. There's lots of ways to do it wrong and a few ways to do it right. You don't get a second shot.

[notrain]

molestrip, i'm not trying to be an asshole but consider leaving your kids be and not make their childhood about an odyssee to various doctors and biting on useless pieces of plastic.

i have no idea what you look like, but take a look in the mirror and take a look at your wife. if you are both unattractive and if one of you has similar problems as your kids (narrow palate, open bite, mouth breather) then SAVE YOUR MONEY instead of wasting it on childhood treatments which will either not work at all or reverse themselves during puberty anyway.

instead, let your kids have fun while they grow up - no functional ortho appliances, no braces, no bulls**t. save that money, shuttle your daughter at age 15 to a top maxfac and pay to fix whatever genetic horrors you bestowed upon her. this is honestly the best way of doing things, because from what you wrote your daughter will need surgery regardless of what you do now.

just my 2 cents.

[PloskoPlus]

I gotta agree with notrain - don't torture your kids.  My childhood palatal expansion had to be undone during surgery.  Wait till their growth is finished, 12 months of braces, surgery, done.  And the money you save by not dragging them to the various quacks will probably pay for the surgery.