Author Topic: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?  (Read 4810 times)

needagameplan

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tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« on: May 07, 2015, 01:19:43 PM »
wolford's paper said that people's tmj issues got worse...

I thought my tmj issues are caused by my jaw being in the wrong position.

Are they therefore mostly caused by my jaw GROWING in the wrong fashion?

That's a letdown.

But it's hard for me to imagine that I wouldn't feel better after surgery, because right now my facial muscles are literally strained due to my recessed lower jaw / forward head posture.

if your muscles are harmoniously balanced, why would you have joint pain?

needagameplan

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2015, 01:22:34 PM »
I see, Wolford's methodology may have been a bit (unintentionally) misleading

This approach seems more helpful. According to these authors, in retrospect most people report less TMJ pain

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2998459/

molestrip

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2015, 01:27:20 PM »
Have you watched a jaw surgery video on Youtube? Jaw surgery is hard on the face. The trauma alone can damage the joints. Worse yet, after jaw surgery the muscles and bones all need to adapt to the new structural reality. Remodeling in other words! People with dysfunctional joints are at higher risk for dysfunctional remodeling. 80% of such patients relapse according to the paper as I recall. Hence the strong desire to pursue treatments for joint problems. I haven't seen the papers from Dr Arnett, I'm curious what kind of results the pharmaceutical approach gives but Dr Wolford has pursued a surgical approach. A prosthodontist I've been consulting first checked for TMJ problems and when I was clean, he gave a sigh of relief and said "good, that means we have options!". Dr Wolford strongly recommends stabilizing the joint first before jaw surgery for this reason and his papers show a high success rate in these cases. His negative reputation comes from those that fail or where the joint repair fails, which sadly happens often I think despite successful jaw surgery. Maybe he's planning on looking at reversible joint surgeries next, I don't know.

I'm just glad that I don't have joint problems. The odds are still 20% of developing problems post surgery, though I suspect a large portion of that are people with established or silent problems.

molestrip

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2015, 01:30:21 PM »
I see jaw surgery for TMJ patients as a gamble. You can do nothing and slowly degrade over time. Not as terrible as it sounds, if you prolong long enough eventually a good surgical treatment will appear. Or you can do jaw surgery now, whatever the odds, and if you succeed without worsening your TMJ problems, you're probably good for life. But there's a chance that you'll further destabilize the joint and end up much worse much more quickly. No one should have to make this choice.

needagameplan

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2015, 01:33:52 PM »
HmMm. I just feel like so much of my pain is caused by the musculature imbalances. I'm not sure I have much actual pain in my actual TMJ joint. does that sense? I do get some wicked pops/cracking somewhat regularly... Anyway, I guess I'll have to get evaluated.

molestrip

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2015, 01:36:07 PM »
I have orofacial pain, similar but different than TMJ. It's caused by an open bite. I think typically it resolves with jaw surgery but might require some PT to get there. Muscles develop scar tissue like everything else, you can't always rehabilitate them.

Rico

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2015, 03:53:00 PM »
Was the surgery mandatory ?

do you have bruxism ?

if yes have u tried to reduce somehowe you stress?

molestrip

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2015, 08:58:27 PM »
Long term, I would say surgery is mandatory. I have some bruxism. I did physical therapy for 3mo and it got better. I still do it a few times a week and I've been good for over a year now. I still have bad days sometimes, typically if I have a lot of reflux the night before by eating late. Stress has little to no impact on my symptoms (facial pain at least). I've had the open bite for so long I've learned to basically keep my mouth open most of the time without showing others so other than when I sleep, I don't brux.

Tom2

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 02:55:06 PM »
One of my TMJ's has caused me pain for most of my life.    It clicked, popped, it would torture me if I slept on it wrong.

I just had jaw surgery.

I'm worse off now than I ever was.

More pain, more regularly and more intensity.

I'm hoping it will go away as things settle down.      I'm in active braces again and I am sure that isn't helping.      I'll have to reevaluate when the braces come off in  4-6 months.

My jaw and muscles had all learned to work with what was there for decades.    Now with everything in a new position, I am relearning to talk and eat.  It sucks frankly.   

I think I am fighting muscle memory or at least I try to tell myself that over time the muscles will learn and I won't hurt anymore.

I dunno.     We'll see.

Ask me in 10 1/2 months when I am a year past the surgery and out of braces for several months. 

If I am still around, I'd be happy to share with you.

needagameplan

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2015, 03:11:55 PM »
One of my TMJ's has caused me pain for most of my life.    It clicked, popped, it would torture me if I slept on it wrong.

I just had jaw surgery.

I'm worse off now than I ever was.

More pain, more regularly and more intensity.

I'm hoping it will go away as things settle down.      I'm in active braces again and I am sure that isn't helping.      I'll have to reevaluate when the braces come off in  4-6 months.

My jaw and muscles had all learned to work with what was there for decades.    Now with everything in a new position, I am relearning to talk and eat.  It sucks frankly.   

I think I am fighting muscle memory or at least I try to tell myself that over time the muscles will learn and I won't hurt anymore.

I dunno.     We'll see.

Ask me in 10 1/2 months when I am a year past the surgery and out of braces for several months. 

If I am still around, I'd be happy to share with you.

My joint pops and clicks, but I don't think it is actually in more than very mild pain regularly...I think my pain is mostly caused by forward head posture and position of my lower jaw

Tom2

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2015, 04:16:59 PM »
My joint pops and clicks, but I don't think it is actually in more than very mild pain regularly...I think my pain is mostly caused by forward head posture and position of my lower jaw

Maybe, maybe not.     That surgery is going to beat the crap out of your TMJ.  How it reacts is a guess at best.

needagameplan

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2015, 04:31:20 PM »
Jeez.well that's good to be aware of...hopefully it could help that I'm still young.

but doesn't practically everyone who gets a lf1+bsso have tmj issues?

Rico

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2015, 12:47:02 AM »
molestrip: you got me little wrong

stress does not cause TMJ issue  directly
but damaged this area due to jaw / teeth clenching, even if you do not grind your teeth

if you weak up having your teeth clenched - strongly closed mouth, then this is one of the main problems
you should weak up with jaw very relaxed ..no contact between upper and lower teeth should be

Tom2

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 01:30:12 PM »
molestrip: you got me little wrong

stress does not cause TMJ issue  directly
but damaged this area due to jaw / teeth clenching, even if you do not grind your teeth

if you weak up having your teeth clenched - strongly closed mouth, then this is one of the main problems
you should weak up with jaw very relaxed ..no contact between upper and lower teeth should be

True.   That joint gets worked hard everyday and it needs the down time it gets at night.     Don't give it and it will most likely cause issues at some point.


ForeignCartographer

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Re: tmj pain WORSENED after jaw surgery?
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2022, 03:41:01 PM »
One of my TMJ's has caused me pain for most of my life.    It clicked, popped, it would torture me if I slept on it wrong.

I just had jaw surgery.

I'm worse off now than I ever was.

More pain, more regularly and more intensity.

I'm hoping it will go away as things settle down.      I'm in active braces again and I am sure that isn't helping.      I'll have to reevaluate when the braces come off in  4-6 months.

My jaw and muscles had all learned to work with what was there for decades.    Now with everything in a new position, I am relearning to talk and eat.  It sucks frankly.   

I think I am fighting muscle memory or at least I try to tell myself that over time the muscles will learn and I won't hurt anymore.

I dunno.     We'll see.

Ask me in 10 1/2 months when I am a year past the surgery and out of braces for several months. 

If I am still around, I'd be happy to share with you.

Hey Tom, how did it go?