What procedures would you suggest for my eye area?

[ncharm]

I would kill to have those eyes. Clear case of BDD

[Tiny]

Look pretty normal

Get a cream-coloured eyeliner pencil and use it in the inner corner waterline area if you want to make them look wider

Anyway, closer together eyes is more masculine, wide-set more feminine, no?

[terry947]

wide set eyes are prefered on both genders from what I've read. BUT it all depends on how your features sit together. YOu can have perfect eye distance but if you nose is long or some other s**t is off then it wont look good.

[Charles-Guillaume]

Thanks for replying, guys! Much appreciated.

If you widen your face through malar osteotomy, your eyes may look more close set.  Building up the bridge of the nose has the same effect, FWIW.

My dorsum is overprojected, so I'm actually considering a reduction rhinoplasty. Could this perhaps increase the perceived interocular distance?

Believe me, I'm well aware of the importance of eyes.  IMO, the eyes are at least 80% of looks.  I have 2 surgeons willing to advance my infraorbital rims.  But my face is wide, my IPD is 67 or 68, my eyes are small.  I'm afraid they may look like "piss holes in the snow" afterwards.

I believe you! Are your eyes horizontally short or just "small" as in vertically narrow?

Dude, what era are you from?

I was born in the first half of the 1990s, but sometimes I feel as though I would be better off as a Mediaeval man. 

Your eyes are not too close set at all. They have a good shape.

You will not benefit from infraorbital rim advancement, in fact quite the opposite as that may indeed make your eyes look too close set. There's nothing to be changed in this quadrant of your face. Final word.

I do like the shape of my eyes (at any rate, I've seen far worse), but relative to the length of my face--which appears to be rather average--they strike me as too close together.

How exactly would sagittal advancement of the infraorbital region make the eyes seem closer together? I am inclined to believe you as you probably know a lot more about this stuff than I do, but it didn't strike me as intuitively obvious (as, for example, the self-evident fact that the wider the skull, the closer-set the eyes will look in relative terms).

I would kill to have those eyes. Clear case of BDD

Sometimes as feel as though I would kill for better spacing. I don't really think that I have BDD (though a psychiatrist once suggested it) as I base my self-evaluation on the reactions of others (and other people never seem to find me even remotely good-looking, if they did someone would have approached me out of the blue by now).

Get a cream-coloured eyeliner pencil and use it in the inner corner waterline area if you want to make them look wider

Perhaps I could use some very discreet makeup, but if anyone notices it I'm bound to get ostracised for being a "fag".

Anyway, closer together eyes is more masculine, wide-set more feminine, no?

Male PD is on average greater than female PD (and averageness of features/proportions seems to be very indicative of facial attractiveness), but the discrepancy seems to be smaller than that of overall facial length/width. Hence masculine eyes, while in absolute terms further apart, will seem slightly more close-set than feminine eyes.

[PloskoPlus]

My dorsum is overprojected, so I'm actually considering a reduction rhinoplasty. Could this perhaps increase the perceived interocular distance?

I'd be real careful there.  You don't want to end up with a "done" ski jump feminine nose.  Rhinoplasty is a real crap shoot.

I believe you! Are your eyes horizontally short or just "small" as in vertically narrow?

Horizontally short.  Although this may be an illusion due to IPD and big temples.

[Charles-Guillaume]

I'd be real careful there.  You don't want to end up with a "done" ski jump feminine nose.  Rhinoplasty is a real crap shoot.

Yeah, rhinos seem fairly unreliable at times. I have this weird combination of an average radix, a high dorsum, and an upturned tip with slightly retracted alae. Ideally I would want keep the upturned tip, have some minor grafting done to the alae, and shave the dorsum conservatively.

Then again, some people who are considered very good looking such as the male model Sean O'Pry have just about the type of dorsum projection that I would like to get rid of, but just because some extraordinary model can pull a conventionally ugly feature off doesn't mean that I can.

[Charles-Guillaume]

Here's a new image of my eyes. Just for reference, my PD is probably 59-60 mm (I have measured it like 50 times today, still can't get a more precise measurement) and my bizygomatic width is 13.8 cm. The latter measurement appears dead on average for an early-mid 20s male according to a facial measurements database that I consult, but my PD should be around 63-64 mm.

As you can see in this image there are dark circles underneath my eyes signaling orbital recession, but a physician whose advice I sought claimed that it might be due to allergies primarily. It does look worse now than it did pre-surgery (I had BSSO and LeFort I about three weeks ago), so perhaps it will lessen with time? The eyelid asymmetry should also be more evident in this one, though it doesn't bother me that much to be honest.



I will also add an imagine of my post-op profile, so that you can examine my orbits from the side.



A year from now I might opt to get a chin wing to get a deeper, more masculine jaw. I also intend to fix my hairline with a transplant, as I feel that I am far too young to have recession in that area.

Pre-surgery I had a deep class II bite, do you think that my jaws were sufficiently advanced by the looks of it? To me my chin still looks weak (I didn't have a genioplasty as I would rather have a chin wing later on to improve my gonial angle), but my surgeon claims that this is due to swelling and that my profile will look good in a few months.

The image quality is pure s**te, I know, but I don't have better equipment yet.

[Gregor Samsa]

My eyes look almost exactly the same. You have thin skin under the eyes so the veins are more noticable (same as me). Your profile looks normal though so I'm not sure if it's an infraortibal deficiency. I'm pretty sure any plastic surgeon would recommend fat grafts.

[terry947]

tbh i first scrolled down to look at the pics and I though, why is this guys on jawsurgery forum? everything looks good to me, then i read you had bsso/le fort. I couldn't even guess.

Remember that taking pics at a close distance distorts the face. Judging by the first picture, it kind of does look like the eyes are too close, but i feel like the pic was taken too close, throwing everything off.

[Charles-Guillaume]

Here are my mother's eyes, for reference.



And my father's:



As you can see, they both, unlike yours truly, have well-supported and well-proportioned eyes. This undoubtedly has fuelled my desire to obtain surgicially the eyes that I somehow reasoned were my "birthright", if that makes any sense.

[PloskoPlus]

Your father has a great eye area.  I got my fathers potato features, and my mother's class III.  Had it been the other way around - my dad's perfectly orthognathic skull and my mother's killer eyes, nose and mouth, I would have been handsome. 

[Charles-Guillaume]

Your father has a great eye area.  I got my fathers potato features, and my mother's class III.  Had it been the other way around - my dad's perfectly orthognathic skull and my mother's killer eyes, nose and mouth, I would have been handsome.

I don't really know who gave me my features. Don't really resemble my parents at all.

My father keeps insisting that I'm "handsome", should "get a girlfriend", "get into boxing, you have long arms!" etc. I just can't deal with this "feelgood" nonsense--would much appreciate if he would stop trying to encourage me to accept my relative inferiority.

[PloskoPlus]

Maybe because I am an older female, I see these younger people who decide they would like to look like movie stars and that perhaps their lives would, in some way, be better if they were super-duper-good-looking, and it just makes me shake my head and wonder what the hell has happened to the world.  In reality, only about 2% of the population is outrageously good looking.  Prior to the internet and photoshop, few people in the world had actually seen (in person) a truly good looking person.  And you know what?  The world went on.  Now everyone wants to have movie-star looks, and the truth is "it just ain't going to happen."  Surgeries only change your looks slightly to make you a slightly better version of yourself.

What you say makes a lot of sense.  But neither the Internet, nor Photoshop can be uninvented, so neuroticism is bound to keep increasing in the foreseeable future.  (Anyway, this stuff started before the Internet.  Probably in the 50s.  Colour movies and glossy magazines.) 

But just as we haven't banned cars for causing pollution - instead producing cars that pollute less, we will probably end up making better looking people to solve this.

FWIW, movie stars are not a patch on magazine models.  The latter look way too good for movies - the viewer will not empathise with them.

[Lazlo]

I don't really know who gave me my features. Don't really resemble my parents at all.

My father keeps insisting that I'm "handsome", should "get a girlfriend", "get into boxing, you have long arms!" etc. I just can't deal with this "feelgood" nonsense--would much appreciate if he would stop trying to encourage me to accept my relative inferiority.

You're a f**king moron. Listen to your father. Your eyes are fine. Your whole face is handsome.

You just have approach avoidance anxiety --you're afraid to fail so you make excuses for not trying or why you'll fail regardless. You're not willing to work on those things you CAN indeed change like your f**king pencil-head personality.

[Charles-Guillaume]

This makes me want to just give you a big hug. Not in a sleezy, creepy way, but in a "God Damm, who f**ked you up way." 
YOU LOOK NORMAL.  Straight up, you look normal. 

This is a serious question, "What in God's name made you decide you are inferior in any way?"  Did someone tell you this or did you come to this conclusion on your own?  I really want to know.  If someone told you this, I could kick their ass for screwing you up.

Maybe because I am an older female, I see these younger people who decide they would like to look like movie stars and that perhaps their lives would, in some way, be better if they were super-duper-good-looking, and it just makes me shake my head and wonder what the hell has happened to the world.  In reality, only about 2% of the population is outrageously good looking.  Prior to the internet and photoshop, few people in the world had actually seen (in person) a truly good looking person.  And you know what?  The world went on.  Now everyone wants to have movie-star looks, and the truth is "it just ain't going to happen."  Surgeries only change your looks slightly to make you a slightly better version of yourself.

I think you should stop having surgery, or if you insist on changing anything (which you do not need to) perhaps a genioplasty.  Nothing to the eyes.

Thanks for your concern, but I have decided either to become conventionally unquestionably good-looking (I don't desire perfection, but a clear advantage over the majority of the population) or to simply let go. Since my psyche is already deeply damaged, reason dictates that I should focus my attention where there is real, tangible improvment to be had--skeletal osteotomies.

What are you talking about? its obvious that his selfesteem hasnt been built on his look before jaw surgerie so its obvious that he has already feeling of inferiority and believe when you were bullied as a kid as a teen because of your appearance you will never ever gain confidence like normal looking people. We dont talk about movie stars here we talk about look normal and OPs jaw before surgery was out of normal limits. And its a myth that good look on men doesnt matter I had very good job on a bank and must leave because I were mobbed. Our society is cruel and doesnt accept intelligent people with some discrepancy in the look for well paid jobs or going out you will every second every minute every hour every day remembered that you are not part of the winning clique. Coming back to OP what talked your father to you isnt the reality you look normal nothing more its the biggest mistake from parents, friends to say that you look outrageous when it isnt the case you will end delusional. Father is right built up some muscles.
what concerns your eyes you have very very deep set eyes thats normally good feature in men (also woman) and also very forward superiour orbital rims but your eyebrows are shagging to much. So with your already deep set eyes and shagging eyebrows you look a bit upset (I have the opposite very high eyebrows (whats looks normally more friendly but can also look ridicoulous in men). Your eyes may a bit narrow but its your whole face that is narrow nothing bad at all and you will never find a surgeon  that will set your eyes wider because its very invasive surgery much more invasive than a lefort3 and to obtain vertical and horizontal symmetry is tricky your eyes now are symmetric and last your jaw surgery was a success very good result congrats.

Your analysis of my preop situation (as well as my results, I believe) is well-founded. As I mentioned above, being a "5/10" won't suffice for me. As my mental profile is offensively unattractive to most people--women in particular--I must obtain conventionally better looks. I have already consulted with reputable craniofacial surgeons in continental Europe who would be happy to perform a "reverse box osteotomy" on me provided that I pay juicy amounts of money and the whole ordeal is "under the radar" so to speak. However, after researching the matter for days upon days, I have reached the conclusion that since my pupillary distance is at least "normal", there is more improvement to be had through malar and chin wing osteotomies.

I have terrible skin and a receding hairline too, and with scar removal, β-carotene supplementation, and hair transplants I might attain a look that is significantly more agreeable to the eyes of modern women.

Here, by the way, is a near-frontal image of my preop (17 year old) self. Imagine an additional centimeter of horizontal zygomatic protrusion, a lower hairline, and gonial angles enhanced by a chin wing osteotomy. If I would also work out and obtain more muscle mass (especially around the neck and shoulders) I soundly believe that my looks, while never reaching the status of "oh my god he's soooo hot", could at least amount to an "oh, he's a good-looking guy" after some serious modification.



Here's another preop image, just a few weeks prior to surgery. s**t quality, but it's the closest thing that I have to a full frontal facial shot.

You're a f**king moron. Listen to your father. Your eyes are fine. Your whole face is handsome.

You just have approach avoidance anxiety --you're afraid to fail so you make excuses for not trying or why you'll fail regardless. You're not willing to work on those things you CAN indeed change like your f**king pencil-head personality.

No need for hostility, man. Anyhow, I agree that my personality is f**ked up. It is, in fact, beyond repair. Psychology is a ludicrous pseudo-science and no drug on Earth has been able to "help" me. The conclusion that I have reached is that I simply must improve my looks, since it is just a matter of rearranging facial bones and improving skin/hair/body quality.