Widening cheekbones

[terry947]

You guys said it perfectly. I'm sure most people would at least look the same or slightly better after fixing their deformity.

Id take a normal profile over a recessed jaw anyday regardless if JS made my mid face recession look more obvious.

[jusken]

I'll happily classify myself in the 95% of notrain's statistic of not attractive post-surgical results.  But my face just grew all weird, so improvement I tend to think.

Seems like most people in here are actually fairly good looking people looking for a slight improvement.   It actually seems pretty crazy to go through this if you're in this boat.  Even just having braces as an adult I think has a higher chance of causing bone loss/gum recession.  While slight improvements are the safest, I'd think most likely you'd get a lateral change in your overall appearance.  Or even if you look better, your lips being slightly numb/stiff might make you feel worse about it.

On the other hand, if you're like me and had lots of problems with your facial development, there isn't a great solution.  If you go too extreme on one type of movement, it's going to throw everything off as others have said.  After going through all of this, I'd say to always go conservative(undercorrect) with everything unless you really just trusted your surgeon.  Too much movement is bound to cause bad trade-offs elsewhere (such as your nose with a LeFort 1).

Certainly don't look at some very attractive person and try to figure out what movements you'd need to accomplish that look.  Fixing a deformity seems like the only noble cause to me.  A combination of functional+aesthetic seems to be the best case for surgery.  I rarely see purely cosmetic surgery that I think is strictly an improvement, but that's partly because over the years I've learned to look very discerningly at before/afters.  Guess I should add that more often I think they look slightly/moderately worse after in this case.

[terry947]

Man this thread is making me second guess getting JS. But for those who have seem my pics here, they said to get a regular LF1 with CWW rotation. I legit have a lower jaw deformity, it legit recessed. So for me a basic procedure would be good right? Also I have a narrow airway so I'll most likely have to get it when im in my 40's....

If i were to get any orbital/ zygo povements id just want 3-5mm of forwards and lateral movement. Nothing crazy...

[PloskoPlus]

I'll happily classify myself in the 95% of notrain's statistic of not attractive post-surgical results.  But my face just grew all weird, so improvement I tend to think.

Your result is very good.

Even just having braces as an adult I think has a higher chance of causing bone loss/gum recession.  While slight improvements are the safest, I'd think most likely you'd get a lateral change in your overall appearance.

A max fac book I have says in bold "adult patients should be informed of the risk of getting black triangles".  I sure wasn't.

Too much movement is bound to cause bad trade-offs elsewhere (such as your nose with a LeFort 1).

True, very few will get away without some changes to the nose.  All that tissue has to go somewhere when the bone behind is moved forward.  It's not all bad. Noses tend to look smaller in profile after LF1 advancement.

BTW, did removing the plates help?

[PloskoPlus]

Man this thread is making me second guess getting JS.

Don't kid yourself.  You need orthognathic surgery.

[PloskoPlus]

Many of you talk about some  improvements, which would make you more attractive and based on this, you further decide which jaw surgery or plastic surgery approach would be good for you to achieve more attractive look.

And what is your motivation?

You have created an endless train of debates about various dangerous surgical approaches and are thinking about undergoing rare and eventually insane osteotomies, which were not performed even on monkey test subjects yet. Some of you appear to have studied every maxfac textbook and lurking this forum (and probably others as well) for years, yet nobody understands the basic concepts of human attractiveness and more importantly, nobody did a simple field research on aesthetic outcome of patients to get closer to the truth - you rather took a few good before-after images you found on internet and generalise that outcome to all cases or at least on your case, despite the fact that you may know the rubbish statistic behind aesthetic outcome, but yet you falsely believe or simply you want to believe that your case will be different. This is stupid or delusional, probably both.

Actually it's very simple: ugly and recessed is worse than just ugly even from a simple ageing point of view.  Once you hit 35, you'll understand.
As far as success stories are concerned, we have a user who started as a deformed potato.  Jaw surgery turned him into just a potato.  ZO + chin wing + rhino turned him into a good looking guy.  So miracles do happen.

[Charles-Guillaume]

c) Then there is a group of patients, who'd like to change their looks to be objectively more attractive to the opposite sex, or be better treated by people around, more successful with woman..etc. This group is one of the most lethal. I've came across few forums, where sanity doesn't exist and where people were discussing surgery approaches to be more successful with females, thinking that jaw surgery or plastic surgery will transform their faces into objectively attractive one (being in the top 20% of population aesthetically wise). They obviously don't understand how sexual attraction works and how many subtle changes (dozens of them) needs to be done not only on hard, but soft tissues as well, to become objectively attractive person. They just neglect a role of hormonal profile and genetics and think that simple anterior advancement (preferably of whole face, thus a LeFort 3) while make them objectively more attractive.  This approach doesn't work, I would say that in 95% it doesn't work. Unless you are already a good looking, but with clear deformity, forget about this. When one will undergo this and figure out that thing in fact didn't work, he'll be disappointed, depressed and he may fall into never ending circle of surgery world. People apparently don't understand all components of attractive face and a psychology behind it, neither they understand how hard if not impossible is to achieve that. 

Yeah, this is pretty much me. I had a pretty good bimax outcome, and I don't qualify for "ugly", but I would really, really, really like to be good-looking, that is something like a "7" or possibly even an "8". Thing is, I cannot envisage happiness sans an attractive face, hence I will attempt to accomplish simple bilateral expansion. I am satisfied with the general shape and outline of my features, only that they ought to be more widely spaced.

Another centimeter or so of zygomatic width, with proportionately increased jaw width and height (chin wing osteotomies can supposedly accomplish this), and orbital expansion. This along with a hair transplant and treatment of acne scarring would most likely produce a face with which I would be comfortable enough to become the man of my ideal world.

I don't neglect the importance of a virile hormonal profile, and will thus experiment with HGH and a WAP style diet. All things considered, I would rather try and fail than live the life of a mediocre-looking para-autist destined to fail with human interaction.

[terry947]

i guess im 1/2 except class II. Some people in real life say im good looking (LOL) but I don't consider myself good looking at all. I wish i could look at my face objectively, like seeing it for the first time or something. Im not gunna lie though, I'd like to fix my recessed jaw, I feel like I'd be less self conscious about it.

Also the rotating zygos was me, I said that its purely speculation, I'd never get it. But I thought I'd throw it in there, maybe some surgeon will see it some day and create it.

Also thanks for re-affirming I need JS plosko, I feel better lol...

[jusken]

Your result is very good.
A max fac book I have says in bold "adult patients should be informed of the risk of getting black triangles".  I sure wasn't.
True, very few will get away without some changes to the nose.  All that tissue has to go somewhere when the bone behind is moved forward.  It's not all bad. Noses tend to look smaller in profile after LF1 advancement.

BTW, did removing the plates help?

I guess this topic has diverged enough now that I can talk about the plates lol.  Yeah, it helped.  It wasn't as dramatic as I hoped, but reduced the nasal flare a bit and reduced the volume under my tear troughs a bit as well (making my eyes look slightly less hollow if that makes sense).  Zero additional numbness.  Again, very subtle but worth it in my case.

[terry947]

@ jusken - Is getting the plates removed a whole hassle/ordeal? During my last consult I asked the surgeon about removing the plates and he said its like getting JS again. Which I thought was a little bulls**t, but I'm not sure...

[jusken]

@ jusken - Is getting the plates removed a whole hassle/ordeal? During my last consult I asked the surgeon about removing the plates and he said its like getting JS again. Which I thought was a little bulls**t, but I'm not sure...

I heard this a lot and it scared the s**t out of me.  Asking a couple members on here about it reassured me though. 

It swells up about the same as the original surgery about 6-8 hours after.  It took about 10 days for the swelling to be almost completely unnoticeable to me.  I took 5 days off work and no one else would notice a thing (very mildly puffy at this time).  It was painless, I ate hard food an hour after surgery. Nothing at all like the original surgery - very easy.

Maybe for some people the swelling from jaw surgery is gone after 10 days, but for me it took like 3 months. 

[PloskoPlus]

I guess this topic has diverged enough now that I can talk about the plates lol.  Yeah, it helped.  It wasn't as dramatic as I hoped, but reduced the nasal flare a bit and reduced the volume under my tear troughs a bit as well (making my eyes look slightly less hollow if that makes sense).  Zero additional numbness.  Again, very subtle but worth it in my case.

Only LF1 plates?

[PloskoPlus]

Also thanks for re-affirming I need JS plosko, I feel better lol...

You stand to gain a lot from JS.

[PloskoPlus]

severe recession of both jaws. want to look like human after.

But you just said JS is a hoax.

i already look 35+. saggy skin due to lack of bone support is a hell, i am similar to that michelin guy.

How is that supposed us, 35+ people, feel?  Anyway, I had something similar happen, although I was already in braces.  Losing facial fat confirmed my deformity and that surgery was the only answer.

sure they do, but rarely and that's why they're called miracles. then non-deformed ppl take this anecdotal success and extrapolate that into their case, thinking that same level of improvement it can be applied to them as well. that's ridiculous.

i bet that your anecdotal case was a good looking guy with deformity, a Class III underbite.

Nope. Class II LFS, no lower third to speak of, huge nose.  Weak cheekbones, weak infraorbital rims.  Like many such cases had rhino and chin implant first, which (as is always the case in such cases) did nothing.
Hard to believe the before turned into the after.  He has nice features - eyes, lips.  But you can't say that from his pre-op appearance.  Only the infraorbital weakness remains, which is negligible, because the gestalt says "looks good".

But, yeah, before I used to think that Class IIIs were the best "show cases".  Canonical case: http://drrichardjoseph.com/photos/113.php

Now I am not so sure.  notrain thinks the most striking cases are where there is a change in the length of the face - short face syndrome, long face syndrome.  He may be right.

[Gregor Samsa]

Fixing the jaw deformity is obviously not going to make you look like a model unless the rest of your face has the features to match. If your goal is to be attractive and you don't have already have a solid foundation then you're going to need way more than just jaw surgery. Korean and to some degree Japanese surgeons are able to consistently produce amazing transformations but they're also willing to go to extremes to achieve it.