Horizontal eye lengthening--eyeball protrusion a relevant factor?

[Charles-Guillaume]

Hello, some of you may remember me. Since I am autistic and also incredibly absent-minded I sometimes go off track and leave fora/forget to respond to people for indeterminate amounts of time.

Anyhow, my question. My eyes are horisontally short, which leads to my having a small outer canthal distance of merely 82 mm. Based on 3D measurements that I have taken and compared to those of genuinely handsome men such as Colton Haynes...



...I have determined beyond reasonable doubt that this dimension of the face is extremely important. Ideally, one would want to have an OCD (outer canthal distance) of 88+ mm, especially if one has a rather wide skull. Now, I am trying to increase my IPD by skull remodelling as per the claims of Mike Mew (according to him, cranial dystrophy reduces IPD, and case studies indicate that it might be possible to actually widen this dimension by chewing exercises), but even if my IPD were in the good range of 63-66-ish, my eyes themselves would still be far to short. My PFL is 26-27 mm, way below the male norm of 29-30 mm.

Would it be possible, as far as you know, to do this lengthening through lateral canthoplasty as a "Caucasian" specimen? The South Korean surgeons have vastly improved the procedure (so they say) and guarantee that the risk for relapse is very minimal, but I cannot find any info on whether this can only be done for Mongoloid anatomy or not. My eyeballs cannot be too small, as my iris dimensions are perfectly normal for an adult male, and iris size:eyeball size is supposedly a stable ratio in humans. However, when I try to lengthen my eyes with my fingers, I notice that the eyeball may simply be too deep-set within the skull to accomplish what I desire.

Have you ever heard of a procedure creating more forward-set eyeballs? I know about orbital decompression, but this would be the exact opposite of what I want to have done. In my world of theorycrafting, it should be possible to set the eyes forward by a mm or so to give more space for a successful lenghtening lateral canthoplasty to be performed.

Thoughts on this, fellas?

[babyface99]

I think your best bet is to continue the chewing look into making a face pulling device and non surgical  palatal expansion and call it a day. Your issues arent enough to warrent extreme surgery yet you do have them so alternative methods are your only hope.

[Charles-Guillaume]

I think your best bet is to continue the chewing look into making a face pulling device and non surgical  palatal expansion and call it a day. Your issues arent enough to warrent extreme surgery yet you do have them so alternative methods are your only hope.

What exactly would face pulling accomplish? Isn't that for maxillamandibular retrusion (which I no longer have)?

Do canthoplasty and orbital compression (as opposed to orbital decompession, no idea if it exists or goes by that name) really constitute "extreme" surgery? I mean I want a box osteotomy for wider-set orbits, that I would agree is extreme.

[Lazlo]

I mean could you repeat all the s**t you just said in English please.

[Charles-Guillaume]

I mean could you repeat all the s**t you just said in English please.

Can't do any better, sorry bro.

that pic looks to be taken with a front facing camera so there will be lens distortion.
Have you ever sent your pics to members here? Impossible to assess without seeing you.

Yeah, there is lens distortion, but that is beside the point. The horisontal length of my eye is only half the vertical height of my nose, which is far from ideal. Since shortening the nose without having it looking fake as all hell doesn't seem at all possible (and this would just lead to a long philtrum instead), I figured that the eyes could be expanded to average palpebral fissure length since my eyeball is in all likelihood normal-sized (given the slightly above average-sized iris).

I've posted quite a few pics of myself publically here, but here you go:



As you can see, the palpebral fissures are horisontally short (28 mm from canthus to canthus, 27 mm perceived frontal view). If you take a look at good-looking people, they will with very, very few exceptions have palpebral fissures that are significantly longer than the vertical height of the nose, even if they have (as I do) close-set eyes in general.



A very amateurish paint job displaying what I would ideally want to accomplish, and would stop at nothing to achieve provided that I could get a satisfactory result. I may have overdone the spacing/lengthening thing, but I don't think anyone can deny that such eye proportions would fit a lot better on my face.

[SJay]

Sure, you look a little better in the morph! But you're not a bad looking guy to begin with, and your eyes are pretty decent... good colour, etc. In my opinion, it doesn't add that much to your attractiveness, but maybe some female users can chime in and let you know what they think. Anyway, I'd want to know how difficult this sort of thing is, and what are the possible complications? If your eyes were terrible, I'd say go for it, but you really don't want to run the risk of ruining something which isn't that bad to begin with!

[Lazlo]

I would say that the lengthening you did makes you A LOT better looking and more handsome.

But what procedures would give you this I wonder?

[Charles-Guillaume]

Sure, you look a little better in the morph! But you're not a bad looking guy to begin with, and your eyes are pretty decent... good colour, etc. In my opinion, it doesn't add that much to your attractiveness, but maybe some female users can chime in and let you know what they think. Anyway, I'd want to know how difficult this sort of thing is, and what are the possible complications? If your eyes were terrible, I'd say go for it, but you really don't want to run the risk of ruining something which isn't that bad to begin with!

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I am not ugly, but I am not good-looking either, and that's what I need to live a decent life with autism. I'll take my chances if I can find the right procedure.

I would say that the lengthening you did makes you A LOT better looking and more handsome.

But what procedures would give you this I wonder?

I agree, though it is a very bad morph of a very bad pic. Lateral canthoplasty can theoretically lengthen the eyeslits, but I believe that this rarely works as expected due to the lid hugging the eyeball. To move the actual orbits apart, I would need extensive craniofacial surgery. However, I would rather die than live the life of a mediocre-looking autist--it's a sexual death sentence. Hence, I want to take a shot in the dark before I decide to end it.

[Lazlo]

Okay, I'm totally with you Charles-Guillame. I want the exact same procedure done. PM me I have some suggestions. LET'S DO IT!!!

[meepmeepmeep]

there is no opposing procedure to orbital decompression. the orbital nerve that attaches the eyeball to the brain is the length that it is. it will not stretch. but apparently it can slacken a bit since orbital decompression is a thing. so, if you were to have an orbital box osteotomy and you wanted to advance the orbits as well as expand laterally, you would have to keep in mind that the eyeballs will not come forward with the sockets.

and yes i agree that the forward or deep set placement of the eye within the cone shaped boney structure and how the soft tissue around the eye interacts with that is what constitutes how short or long the eyes appear. forward set eyeballs with sufficient to strong bone structure/mass = horizontally long eyes w/sharp points on the inner and outer canthi. forward set/medium set eyeballs with poor bone structure = buggy eyes w/sclera show and/or top eyelid show or maybe just normal "big eyes". deep set eyeballs with poor bone structure = small, short sort of shapeless, maybe even beady looking eyes. deep set with strong bone structure = ... not sure. my current theory is that people with very strong bone structure often have more forward eyes because the facial bones grow in a horizontally forward/expansive pattern, and so does all the anatomy within. so i guess it would be interesting to know if highly attractive people have a longer ocular nerve... just my thoughts...

[meepmeepmeep]

what do you mean by the length of the eye being compared to the length of the nose? i assure you that the average height of the male nose is greater than 28 or 30mm...

[Charles-Guillaume]

there is no opposing procedure to orbital decompression. the orbital nerve that attaches the eyeball to the brain is the length that it is. it will not stretch. but apparently it can slacken a bit since orbital decompression is a thing. so, if you were to have an orbital box osteotomy and you wanted to advance the orbits as well as expand laterally, you would have to keep in mind that the eyeballs will not come forward with the sockets.

That's odd. When a person develops say Grave's disease (which increases the horisontal and vertical dimensions of the palpebral fissure through eyeball protrusion), does their ocular nerve then lengthen in tandem? It makes little sense to me.

and yes i agree that the forward or deep set placement of the eye within the cone shaped boney structure and how the soft tissue around the eye interacts with that is what constitutes how short or long the eyes appear. forward set eyeballs with sufficient to strong bone structure/mass = horizontally long eyes w/sharp points on the inner and outer canthi. forward set/medium set eyeballs with poor bone structure = buggy eyes w/sclera show and/or top eyelid show or maybe just normal "big eyes". deep set eyeballs with poor bone structure = small, short sort of shapeless, maybe even beady looking eyes. deep set with strong bone structure = ... not sure. my current theory is that people with very strong bone structure often have more forward eyes because the facial bones grow in a horizontally forward/expansive pattern, and so does all the anatomy within. so i guess it would be interesting to know if highly attractive people have a longer ocular nerve... just my thoughts...

Interesting analyses, you may be right.

what do you mean by the length of the eye being compared to the length of the nose? i assure you that the average height of the male nose is greater than 28 or 30mm...

I said (I think, can't be bothered to re-read) that the nose cannot be more than twice the length of the palpebral fissure. Obviously the average height of the male nose is going to be 50+ mm.

Charlie Hunnam has horisontally short, close-set eyes (similar to mine in shape and overall dimensions) yet manages to be good-looking. Not ridiculously handsome or anything, but certainly sufficiently good-looking. If I can somehow get to his "level" I think that I will be pretty happy with myself.

[Lazlo]

Dude you're not far even now honestly.

[Charles-Guillaume]

Hello again, guys. I wanted to add a few less lens-distorted pics of me that more clearly display the eye/cheekbone asymmetry. Is there good way, orbital box osteotomy aside, that could make my right side look more similar to my left one? Interestingly I have always chewed on the right side primarily due to bite issues--could the asymmetry possibly come from that? According to Mike Mew it might very well be.

EDIT: Just noticed that two the images are huge, but whatever.



http://i.imgur.com/3Wvj1zQ.jpg

Giving myself a unilateral "facelift" seems to improve the issue marginally.

http://i.imgur.com/skSAlVE.jpg

[Lazlo]

Hello again, guys. I wanted to add a few less lens-distorted pics of me that more clearly display the eye/cheekbone asymmetry. Is there good way, orbital box osteotomy aside, that could make my right side look more similar to my left one? Interestingly I have always chewed on the right side primarily due to bite issues--could the asymmetry possibly come from that? According to Mike Mew it might very well be.

EDIT: Just noticed that two the images are huge, but whatever.



http://i.imgur.com/3Wvj1zQ.jpg

Giving myself a unilateral "facelift" seems to improve the issue marginally.

http://i.imgur.com/skSAlVE.jpg

yes absolutely it would be easy.