Look at his long face but his chin makes up for it right?

[JimmyTheGent]

He gets chicks and is a TV personality yet he has a long face without any cheekbones but his jaw is defined.  Am I correct?

[kjohnt]

Haha IDK what to say about attracting women aside from looks are important but not required.  It's obviously more complicated than women attracting men.

While he has a long face, his face isn't a "long face" as discussed by those interested in the jaw structure.  That has to do with retracted jaws and convex profile, which makes a face appear longer from the side and front.  It's generally an issue of the maxilla growing downward instead of outward, and/or retrusive mandibular structure.  Longer midface.  Mr. Daly just has a big forehead (and you're correct that cheekbones would help him out a lot).

[marcus3415]

People say this because it is is true! Many people on these forums seem to base attracting and attraction of females as a strictly aesthetic concept. This is false. Would it help to look like a model? Of course.

But attraction is something you create. If you play the field right and know how to converse appropriately, a woman can't help but to be attracted to you.

It is easier to buy a book and read on such topics and go to the bar and practice than it is to get an extensive surgery which won't change your personality (too much).

[JimmyTheGent]

Excluding his forehead he still has a long face without any curves near the cheekbones but his saving grace is the fact that he has a manly jawline.  Am I correct?  This is about as good as I could look if and when I get double jaw surgery for my sleep apnea.  I will undoubtedly still have a longish face but at least my jaw & chin won't be recessed. 

[PloskoPlus]

Fivehead, not a long face.

[marcus3415]

Evidently youre one to contribute your lack of success with women to your own looks (which are hard to change) as opposed to a personality or character thing (which is alterable)

Nonetheless, I still find the science behind aesthetics intriguing as a science.

[kjohnt]

Why do people say this? I don't understand why this myth that society has pushed is so pervasive, it couldn't be further from the truth, women have higher physical standards than men.

Perhaps you are thinking in terms of first sight or meeting, at which point physical attractiveness is the only thing on which a woman can base her overall attraction to a man.  And further, I'd agree one-nighters have much to do with physical attractiveness.  Even further, I agree physical attractiveness has a lot to do with overall attractiveness.  I don't know, I could be wrong, but...

How many times have you seen physically unattractive men with physically attractive women?  How many times have you seen physically unattractive women with physically attractive men?  I have no numbers to back my answers and this is a subjective concept anyway, but the answer to the first question is so much greater a number from my perspective that it isn't even close.

[marcus3415]

See therein lies the issue.

I've seen it plenty of times! Guys that aren't so particularly attractive with girls that are beautiful. Bars in NYC, Boston, Chicago. I travel a lot and have seen it live.

Im not saying y'all are wrong, but there is as much, if not more, riding on the ability to CREATE the attraction via conversation, body language, being masculine, as there is on the way you appear.

Now if you walk into the nightclub with sweats and beat up sneakers, no. But you get the jist

[kjohnt]

I've personally always felt I've done equal to or better than my looks should allow.  But I'll admit that's partly because I stick to a high standard and am willing to go without sex if I don't like my options.  But I digress.  I don't think women can do better than their looks allow.  I don't care if a woman is rich, famous, funny, etc... I'm not attracted to her is she's overweight or ugly.  I'm just being real.  But it seems the opposite is untrue.

Also, it doesn't matter what women say so much as what they do.  These "rather unappealing women" you speak of can talk all they want about their physical standards, but who do they f**k?

I will say this though to kind of bring it back the other way... generally speaking, it seems people tend to match up with people who are similar in beauty.

[PloskoPlus]

Evidently youre one to contribute your lack of success with women to your own looks (which are hard to change) as opposed to a personality or character thing (which is alterable)

Personality = temperament, which is fixed at birth.  Upbringing may tweak it slightly, but at 20 - you're pretty much done. 
The popular delusion that we can alter our personality stems from our desire to have control over something... anything.  But it's a delusion. 

[needadvancement]

Personality = temperament, which is fixed at birth.  Upbringing may tweak it slightly, but at 20 - you're pretty much done. 
The popular delusion that we can alter our personality stems from our desire to have control over something... anything.  But it's a delusion.

Interesting, is this what you noticed after your surgery? I agree mostly that it's not going to change your personality drastically and I'm certainly not going into my surgery with that expectation. But I notice I always feel better and more confident when I just got a haircut, nice clothes etc. looking the best I can. And when there is finally no longer the insecurity about the facial 'defect' you'll will be more at peace within your mind, it will have an improvement in life for sure the question is to what extent. Guess we're here to find out.

[marcus3415]

Plosko that is so false man. I know because I'm that ave.
My growth and temperament in theast years 18-21 have been great and I know that when I start working where I will make good money, have even nicer clothes, etc, it will rise even more.

After surgery, my confidence rose. I wouldn't say drastically because I've always had high self esteem despite the deformity. Now, one shouldn't expect surgery to solve all their problems, but mine definitely gave me a better life outlook due to improved aesthetics, breathing, and functionality.