Interesting post from bodybuilding.com

[x]

youd need to take a high-resolution photo at rest. you probably by habit take photos posing a certain way, avoiding specific angles like the plague....so you forget what you really look like. you might avoid photos all together.

it's important to look now as hard as that sounds. after surgery you'll be looking much more closely and you may be unprepared if you weren't aware of your appearance before surgery. that's essential in managing expectations.

but at what angle? at what distance?

my 3/4s doesnt actually look too bad, my front from arm's length away looks like complete s**t. I guess that's not a good sign?

[CK]

but at what angle? at what distance?

my 3/4s doesnt actually look too bad, my front from arm's length away looks like complete s**t. I guess that's not a good sign?

the point is you are aware though probably isnt super healthy to have such a low opinion of yourself LOL.

[trigeminalneuralgia]

Diet helps produce sex hormones amongst other things, its clearly a factor

[stupidjaws]

with the camera to take selfies on my iphone i look ugly and vertical faced, with the "normal one" still on the iphone i look better and in photo booth i almost look decent...what's the truth?

[pekay]

the majority of ugly people that I see outside and online have normal Class I bites and proper jaw alignment

interesting enough I have seen dozens and dozens of girls who are getting ready for surgery (youtube v-blogs) with moderate to severe Class 2 and 3 malocclusion who are still quite attractive pre-op

being attractive is much more deeper and complicated than having a perfect occlusion

[trigeminalneuralgia]

Agreeeeee

[CK]

Yea the vertical vs horizontal growth is frequently referred to by the orthotropics folk.  I am critical of many classic orthodontics, but I'm not really convinced the orthotropic approach is much better.  There is a lot of online advertisements for it but little research to back up their claims. 

orthotropics seems a bit suspect. however the behavior of orthodontists can appear almost criminal. i imagine there is a huge financial incentive to stifle any research that might challenge conventional orthodontic philosophy.

[Alue]

well the bones are ossified but d.o. means NEW bone growth, separating the current bone and allowing new bone to grow in the gap between the separation, regardless of ossification.

The idea seems to be exactly what's needed for you and I, I imagine the only thing that's held it back thus far is the execution.

With HGH you can experience some facial bone growth post puberty (well it can thicken the bones).  This isn't recommended, though, because it is systemic and can have many other negative side effects. 

[Lazlo]

With HGH you can experience some facial bone growth post puberty (well it can thicken the bones).  This isn't recommended, though, because it is systemic and can have many other negative side effects. 

i know some actual bodybuilders who've used it. let me just tell you. that s**t will f**k you up seriously. like you'll begin to resemble a garden gnome. seriously freaky s**t like weird distended stomachs even though you're super ripped.

[pekay]

if mouth breathing causes retrognathism what causes prognathism? jaw clenching as a kid? what about microgenia? slamming your chin against a pull bar during PE class?

to quote CK: abnormal/improper growth must be addressed ASAP, at a very young age (6/7/8 years old)

[CK]

if mouth breathing causes retrognathism what causes prognathism? jaw clenching as a kid? what about microgenia? slamming your chin against a pull bar during PE class?

to quote CK: abnormal/improper growth must be addressed ASAP, at a very young age (6/7/8 years old)

personally i dont think mouth breathing alone does anything..rather it is a sign of something else. improper tongue posture such as tongue thrust can lead to an open bite and if one doesnt address the tongue thrust i would imagine it could do heavy damage after 15-20 years.

if the tongue doesnt form the palate than the upper jaw wont develop properly.

linking retrognathism and prognathism as related growth-wise is a mistake imo...they might not be necessarily inversed in terms of what causes those conditions to evolve.

any of these kinds of behavioral problems begin at age 0...if decides to mouth breath as a teenager i dont think it is going to end in a jaw or facial deformity.

[pekay]

personally i dont think mouth breathing alone does anything..rather it is a sign of something else. improper tongue posture such as tongue thrust can lead to an open bite and if one doesnt address the tongue thrust i would imagine it could do heavy damage after 15-20 years.

if the tongue doesnt form the palate than the upper jaw wont develop properly.

linking retrognathism and prognathism as related growth-wise is a mistake imo...they might not be necessarily inversed in terms of what causes those conditions to evolve.

any of these kinds of behavioral problems begin at age 0...if decides to mouth breath as a teenager i dont think it is going to end in a jaw or facial deformity.

speech therapy will only do so much as far as correcting tongue thrusting, the only real way to address this issue is by creating proper room in one's mouth

there is this blog entry by a well known otorhinologist where he basically goes off on the whole rhinoplasty fad which was partly created by those plastic surgery reality TV shows, basically he says that he has a bunch of patients coming in who had a septoplasty and turbinoplasty who still suffered from breathing problems/sleep apnea after surgery because *GRASP* a narrow airway is a narrow airway

again abnormal/improper growth must be spotted and addressed ASAP



^ Prof MM

[CK]

speech therapy will only do so much as far as correcting tongue thrusting, the only real way to address this issue is by creating proper room in one's mouth

we also cant ignore the fact that one can develop a tongue thrust in spite of having sufficient room in the mouth.

[Dempah]

with the camera to take selfies on my iphone i look ugly and vertical faced, with the "normal one" still on the iphone i look better and in photo booth i almost look decent...what's the truth?

Thats because its a wide angle lense which causes a distortion. To get a more accurate picture with the iphone, stay 3m away from the camera. Or buy a system camera and use a lense with a focal length between 85-130 mm. The differense is huge.

Example below.

[Dempah]

I wouldn't compare eyes with a lense.

"One recent photography book I was browsing through repeated the oft-made claim that a 50mm lens most closely matches that which our eyes see, the so-called "normal" lens. The first problem with this, of course, is that everyone's eyes are a little bit different. More to the point, the eye/brain connection includes a number of subtle features, such as peripheral vision and near-constant reorienting and focusing. In general, I find that I "see" about a 24mm-equivalent field of view, with my vision concentrated on the equivalent of anything from a 80mm to 300mm lens (and this range has narrowed as I grow older). (For those that are curious, most human eyes are about 16mm in focal length and the pupil's iris can manage effective apertures of from about f/2 to f/11.)"



If using a 50mm on full frame for a head shot, filling the frame, you will be pretty close to your camera and will have a lot of perspective distortion (big nose, tiny ears). Another option is to have some distance but then crop the image, but that will give you lower quality. An 85mm or even longer would be a better choice for any head shot.


And a funny thing I found out about how our brain can adapt to the signals from our eyes.

"Psychologist George M. Stratton conducted, in the 1890s, experiments in which he tested the theory of perceptual adaptation.[2] In one experiment, he wore a reversing glasses for 21½ hours over three days, with no change in his vision. After removing the glasses, "normal vision was restored instantaneously and without any disturbance in the natural appearance or position of objects."[2]

On a later experiment, Stratton wore the glasses for eight whole days. By day four, the images seen through the instrument were still upside down. However, on day five, images appeared upright until he concentrated on them; then they became inverted again. By having to concentrate on his vision to turn it upside down again, especially when he knew images were hitting his retinas in the opposite orientation as normal, Stratton deduced his brain had reprocessed his vision and adapted to the changes in vision."