Author Topic: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...  (Read 7251 times)

Trader

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 10:44:53 AM »
You'd benefit a lot from jaw surgery, but you also have a pretty challenging case -- a steep occlusal plane with no gummy smile. Very few surgeons can adequately manage cases like this (you'd need CCW rotation with a posterior maxillary downgraft).

Because of this, I would recommend getting jaw surgery only with a top surgeon, ideally Dr. Gunson. Jaw surgery is something you want to get right the first time, even if that requires waiting several years for correction.

I think you'd also benefit substantially from a genioplasty, and if you get one now, you can always get jaw surgery later. An 8mm genioplasty would not be too much, as your chin is very recessive (independent of your mandibular recession).

So my advice is to get a genioplasty now and revisit jaw surgery in the future when you've saved up more money and are able to consult with a top surgeon. I'm confident that a large genioplasty would look great on you.

ditterbo

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 04:05:45 PM »
You'd benefit a lot from jaw surgery, but you also have a pretty challenging case -- a steep occlusal plane with no gummy smile. Very few surgeons can adequately manage cases like this (you'd need CCW rotation with a posterior maxillary downgraft).

Because of this, I would recommend getting jaw surgery only with a top surgeon, ideally Dr. Gunson. Jaw surgery is something you want to get right the first time, even if that requires waiting several years for correction.

I think you'd also benefit substantially from a genioplasty, and if you get one now, you can always get jaw surgery later. An 8mm genioplasty would not be too much, as your chin is very recessive (independent of your mandibular recession).

So my advice is to get a genioplasty now and revisit jaw surgery in the future when you've saved up more money and are able to consult with a top surgeon. I'm confident that a large genioplasty would look great on you.

If he gets an SG now, wouldn't that interfere with a bimax surgeon's surgical planning?  Lets take Gunson for example, who only does 3mm SG's less you force him to like 5.  An 8mm preexisting SG would either reduce your jaw advancement and/or double down on revision genio risks to muscles and nerves, no?
My ceph looks very similar but living with a botched 12mm chin implant for the time being (mentalis muscle rests too high). 

Also, do you not recommend Dr. Posnick for big CCW and posterior maxillary downgraft cases?  I've heard him call a Gunson surgical plan "deforming". 

OP, did the doc who took that x-ray make you slide your lower jaw back as much as physically possible before taking the shot?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 04:27:14 PM by ditterbo »

Trader

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 09:35:37 PM »
If he gets an SG now, wouldn't that interfere with a bimax surgeon's surgical planning?  Lets take Gunson for example, who only does 3mm SG's less you force him to like 5.  An 8mm preexisting SG would either reduce your jaw advancement and/or double down on revision genio risks to muscles and nerves, no?
My ceph looks very similar but living with a botched 12mm chin implant for the time being (mentalis muscle rests too high). 

Also, do you not recommend Dr. Posnick for big CCW and posterior maxillary downgraft cases?  I've heard him call a Gunson surgical plan "deforming". 

OP, did the doc who took that x-ray make you slide your lower jaw back as much as physically possible before taking the shot?

A/G don't take chin projection into account when deciding jaw movements -- they consider the chin only after they determine the maxillomandibular movements needed for an ideal bite. Thus, having too large a chin will have no effect on the amount of jaw advancement that A/G will recommend. It's just one more thing that make them ahead of the curve  ;)

I will say, though, that as great as A/G are, I don't always agree with their belief that a man's chin should project a few milimeters short of the TVL and lower lip. Men with very well-developed faces typically have chins that project further than what A/G recommend. I think a big chin looks great on an individual who has well-positioned jaws (obviously, it doesn't look so good if it's a compensation for a recessed lower face). Remember, male attractiveness is often a result of having exceptional features -- exceptional height, exceptional muscle mass, exceptional jaw, chin, and cheekbone development. A/G's standards are merely based on the average of a bunch of class 1 profiles. And while focusing on averages is fine -- especially for something functional like a bite -- it's often desirable to be above average in more cosmetic traits like height or chin projection.

For cases require large CCW rotations with large posterior maxillary downgrafts, A/G are really the only viable option. By large, I am referring to downgrafts greater than 5 or 6 mm. If you need less than that, another surgeon would probably be fine, provided they have at least some experience with the movement.
 


needadvancement

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2016, 08:23:37 AM »
I will say, though, that as great as A/G are, I don't always agree with their belief that a man's chin should project a few milimeters short of the TVL and lower lip.

Hard to believe that people so skilled and knowledgable would think that but it shows that beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. For a man the chin should either be in line with both lips(if one sticks out further than the other the chin should not be behind either of them) or protrude further that's what I've always believed naturally.

trojans101

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2016, 05:14:13 PM »
If he gets an SG now, wouldn't that interfere with a bimax surgeon's surgical planning?  Lets take Gunson for example, who only does 3mm SG's less you force him to like 5. 

No, you can get an SG, then get jaw surgery later on. Its better to go to the same surgeon and express this though.

stupidjaws

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2016, 08:35:54 AM »
double jaw, chin wing, rhinoplasty.

hmatt330

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2016, 09:07:01 PM »
Have you guys heard of Dr. Jamali in NYC? Has good reviews and is much closer to me

I consulted with him and he told me he would move the jaw forward; no mention of rotating or anything though. IDK, will bring all of this to him.


Thank you for all the responses!

ditterbo

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2016, 09:23:02 PM »
AFAIK he's a great guy for SG's, haven't read/heard about his jaw surgery work.

mike888miller

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2016, 11:24:28 AM »
ditterbo

what did you mean with this

Also, do you not recommend Dr. Posnick for big CCW and posterior maxillary downgraft cases?  I've heard him call a Gunson surgical plan "deforming". 

has any of you guys played around with arneets Software?

ditterbo

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2016, 03:53:55 PM »
Posnick thinks I *might* need lower bicuspid extractions, which to me, reads he isn't comfortable with bigger CCW movements.  In my case, I think I specifically need a big posterior downgraft as my front teeth show very well already with the right gum show.  Gunson was certain I didn't need extractions, called them old fashion, and gave me a block model surgery with all rotation in the posterior.    So maybe Posnick takes a more traditional approach to bimax and 'cheats' by doing teeth extractions over more risky CCW.

I'm curious about this "arneets software" too.  I might start more seriously contemplating spinning up my specific bimax case on this board as I'm starting to think any more chin work to fix my smile isn't worth it with the amount of uncertainty and chance that it will be a step back in chin looks. 

Lazlo

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2016, 06:33:09 PM »
you need the whole kaboodle full bimax and genio end of story.

ditterbo

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2016, 05:43:54 AM »
I've intentionally not studied up much on bimax... I'll be one of the gurus here before I go through with that surgery.  At least that's my hope. Somethings not right w/my mentalis muscle so I may have to avoid a genio and just get a submental implant removal entirely at time of surgery to see how things settle.

OP I don't know this guy well but sounds like he's in your area - Dr. Stephen Warren (NYC  & long island).  Just had a 1.5hr phone consult w/him the other day (free). In person consult will cost you a lot though, 350.  He's a craniofacial plastic surgeon who does jaw surgery to implants to facial deformity correction. I don't think he's known in any real forum but eh there ya go.

mike888miller

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2016, 08:52:28 AM »
re Software Arnett'sFAB Nemotec

http://www.medicalexpo.de/prod/nemotec/product-109911-727065.html

he developed it with a spanish Company. apparently the first of ist Kind, in that if offers Treatment protocols. i was told that ist costs 200 eur per use, but i have parted ways with that doc so sadly cant offer anymore insite.

there is also dolphin Imaging, but they wont give you a Trial Version.

otherwise i agree with lazlo, it took me a year, but i have come to the conflusion that for 90 pc bimax is the only way, and for most of those you Need gne also.

David_D

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Re: So confused on Genioplasty vs Double Jaw surgery...
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2016, 09:42:48 AM »
What do yall think?


In my opinion, there would be more likely to be a favorable aesthetic outcome from jaw surgery than from genioplasty alone.