Lets talk about cheekbones

[The Quest for Aesthetics]

The second guy has visible mid face asymmetry - deviated septum, right side of upper lip higher than left, scleral show in the right eye (not squinting hard enough.  You have to realise that every single model and celebrity squints like mad)...  His hairline is uneven. Yet he is a model.  It's the big picture that counts.

What is the relevance of this to my post, or indeed to the entire thread?

He's a model because of his features. His well developed maxilla combined with high set zygos with prominent zygomatic arches. A tall midface with a perfect nose:upper lip ratio, and perfect mandibular shape and projection. Excellently projected supraorbital rims. Piercing eyebrows which compliment the low-trust downward swung mouth and pull attention away from the mediocre eye shape. And of course, optimal bodyfat with smooth, healthy, youthful skin.

[PloskoPlus]

He's a model because everything on his face flows together. There are people with great features yet they are not attractive. If he had worse features he still would've looked good. This is what happens when they age (Paul Newman) - lips thin, eyes droop, yet they still look good.

[ppsk]

However it's obvious that vertical placement and forward projection of the cheekbones are both more important: those 3 are supermodels and they all share it. Unfortunately there's simply no way to achieve the 'high set' configuration with osteotomies. This is why I am getting a custom midface implant next year which will give me: higher set cheekbones, lateral cheek projection, zygomatic arch protrusion, cheek forward projection, lateral orbital rim projection, infraorbital projection, and paranasal projection all at once. I know this is anathemical to the basis of this forum and the philosophies that float around here, but in my opinion it's really the only solution.

I am thinking much the same as you here, however I suspect that an osteotomy COULD be done to achieve this, its just not done for whatever reason. I'm not anti-implants like most of this forum, i just believe the area would be particularly prone to migration as i doubt they will use titanium screws in that area (i could very well be wrong), and i dont trust the notion that a scar capsule is enough to stop the movement of an implant especially if you were to take a blow/impact to the face. Perhaps they are the only way to go but preferably id like to exhaust all other options first, and iirc - for whatever reason - osteotomies end up being considerably cheaper than custom implants.

I cannot imagine a doctor who would be willing to do an incredibly invasive procedure like a LF3 would not be willing to work outside the box on a cheekbone osteotomy

[The Quest for Aesthetics]

He's a model because everything on his face flows together. There are people with great features yet they are not attractive. If he had worse features he still would've looked good. This is what happens when they age (Paul Newman) - lips thin, eyes droop, yet they still look good.

His face flows together because.... oh yeah, the particular combination of features he has. Our job is to find out what that combination is, and why it produces the result it does. Not resign ourselves to 'it's just the way his face flows'.

An optimally projecting maxilla, with optimal zygomatic structure, with optimal orbital rims, elongated palpebral fissures with great interpupillary distance, with great skin, a well proportioned midface, with great mandibular shape and structure, with no excessive prominences or asymmetries (I.e. No overly big lips, nose, eyes, etc.), with optimal bodyfat will always be good looking.

[The Quest for Aesthetics]

I am thinking much the same as you here, however I suspect that an osteotomy COULD be done to achieve this, its just not done for whatever reason. I'm not anti-implants like most of this forum, i just believe the area would be particularly prone to migration as i doubt they will use titanium screws in that area (i could very well be wrong), and i dont trust the notion that a scar capsule is enough to stop the movement of an implant especially if you were to take a blow/impact to the face. Perhaps they are the only way to go but preferably id like to exhaust all other options first, and iirc - for whatever reason - osteotomies end up being considerably cheaper than custom implants.

I cannot imagine a doctor who would be willing to do an incredibly invasive procedure like a LF3 would not be willing to work outside the box on a cheekbone osteotomy

The point is an osteotomy cannot create new shape where it never existed. I feel like the LF3 is a very straight forward procedure compared to what you want to do with the zygos. Moving the zygomatic body upwards means replacing the bone that is already there (in the location where you want the zygomatic prominence to sit).

Screws are used in this particular implant. Also the cost is very very low for the amount that the implant can do. It's $12-13k and it covers the entire midfacial region from the infra orbital rim down to the paranasal region, and across to the zygomatic body all the way over to the zygomatic arches and up towards the lateral orbital rim.

[boyo]

Silicone is garbage. Do not get it. It feels fake inside your face and will come lose when your orbital sockets shrinks with age. The only type of implant worth to consider is CT bone and it's not even available.

[ppsk]

Silicone is garbage. Do not get it. It feels fake inside your face and will come lose when your orbital sockets shrinks with age. The only type of implant worth to consider is CT bone and it's not even available.

CT bone hype is retarded it has ZERO history and no clinical studies backing its efficacy.

Its all marketing at this point and thats it. The fact the company is having this much trouble, does not bode well. And at the end of the day, it is still an implant and carries all the usual problems.

[ppsk]

The point is an osteotomy cannot create new shape where it never existed. I feel like the LF3 is a very straight forward procedure compared to what you want to do with the zygos. Moving the zygomatic body upwards means replacing the bone that is already there (in the location where you want the zygomatic prominence to sit).

Screws are used in this particular implant. Also the cost is very very low for the amount that the implant can do. It's $12-13k and it covers the entire midfacial region from the infra orbital rim down to the paranasal region, and across to the zygomatic body all the way over to the zygomatic arches and up towards the lateral orbital rim.

who are you getting to do this implant if you dont mind me asking?

[Lestat]

I like the idea of this a lot and I like the sound of this doctor. Is bio oss good stuff? I still don't know what it is exactly? What's it made of? Does it induce and erosion?

Bio Oss is similar to HA. It is clinically tested and safe. I did a lot of research. I think Bio Oss is the best bone substitute material for the moment.
It does not cause bone erosion and is permanent. I have spoken with 2 world famous max fac and cranio surgeons who confirmed me that. In Zurich there are some good surgeons who use it, Triaca f.e. uses it sometimes for orbital rim augmentation.

For more information please see the link below.

http://www.geistlich-na.com/en-us/professionals/bone-substitutes/bio-oss/user-benefits/

[Lestat]

Now let me tell you he showed me one patient —not Earl, but someone more recent who had the “modified lefort-3” yes there was a difference but it just resembled a weak ZSO to me. In fact, when I studied the before and after profiles there was no significant augmentation to the area directly beneath the eye and this was not as augmented as when I see Dr. Yaremchuck’s examples of orbital rim implants with “canthopexy” no Sir, not even close. Honestly from the example of the modified lefort 3 I saw this procedure is not the holy grail to your looks as many of you have been assuming I’m very sorry to report and I don’t think it can do a lot at all. You’re like to get a much more dramatic result from a genioplasty to your appearance. The problem I think rests in the facts that the movement isn’t that much AND you’re limited by your own anatomy. If you don’t have large bones they’re not gonna show very well.

Lazlo is absolutely right! A mod. Lefort III does not improve your eye area since the eye supporting part of the bone is not touched.

Unfortunately there are no very effective zygo/cheekbone surgeries. The difference in the amount of bone mass in a male model's zygos vs an average guy is just enormous and can't be bridged with modern surgery.

But I do not think that Zygo surgery is s**t.

So what are your options???

I did a lot of research. I do not like implants (medpor/silicon). I prefer osteotomies because they are more natural. But the problem with most of osteotomies is that it is very difficult to find an appropriate surgeon who is willing to do this for you if you are not malformed. And imo a mod. Lefort III is insane.

At the end i think the best option is a Zso AND BIO OSS IN ADDITION. It is described as a safe and fast surgery. A Zso gives you lateral and also a little bit forward projection.

OR PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK IS THE BEST OPTION? There are drawbacks to everything it seems.

Another thing: Some feminine features on men aren't necessarily bad. In fact they can be very alluring. And there is literally no difference between "masculine" and "feminine" cheekbones. Cheekbones are cheekbones.

[Lazlo]

Lazlo is absolutely right! A mod. Lefort III does not improve your eye area since the eye supporting part of the bone is not touched.

Unfortunately there are no very effective zygo/cheekbone surgeries. The difference in the amount of bone mass in a male model's zygos vs an average guy is just enormous and can't be bridged with modern surgery.

But I do not think that Zygo surgery is s**t.

So what are your options???

I did a lot of research. I do not like implants (medpor/silicon). I prefer osteotomies because they are more natural. But the problem with most of osteotomies is that it is very difficult to find an appropriate surgeon who is willing to do this for you if you are not malformed. And imo a mod. Lefort III is insane.

At the end i think the best option is a Zso AND BIO OSS IN ADDITION. It is described as a safe and fast surgery. A Zso gives you lateral and also a little bit forward projection.

OR PLEASE TELL ME WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK IS THE BEST OPTION? There are drawbacks to everything it seems.

Another thing: Some feminine features on men aren't necessarily bad. In fact they can be very alluring. And there is literally no difference between "masculine" and "feminine" cheekbones. Cheekbones are cheekbones.

Agreed. Feminine features on men are extremely attractive in some cases. Most really good looking male models are somewhat androgynous in their features.

Regardless, ZSO or modified lefort 3, and BIO-OSS (though I don't know what it is yet? will it turn to bone? does it vascularize? does it cause erosion?), and then some judiciously injected fat and/or filler.

That's the triple threat. Oh and an expert surgeon who understands the aesthetics of this. A lot of max facs don't know s**t about aesthetics.

[boyo]

BIO-OSS is also no good. Zarrinbal told me it's the same garbage as HA paste and did not recommend getting it. Apparently he have been helping numerous of patients with serious tissue/bone inflammation created by HA paste. He told me stories of bone being all mushy/ structurally compromised. Some were implant cases too. Real horror.

Again, as of right now, there is nothing which can create high-set, masculine projecting cheekbones without risking your health long term. Silicone, medpor, HA paste, BIO-OSS it's all just not safe/satisfying enough. If CT bone don't turn out good, we need to wait for real 3d printed bone material implants using stem cells. That's about 5 to 10 years away.

[The Quest for Aesthetics]

who are you getting to do this implant if you dont mind me asking?

Dr. Eppley, he's done it before successfully. I've seen results of what he can do with the orbital rim and paranasal area and it's very impressive. I'm yet to truly see results for the zygos but he claims that he's done custom implants for the zygo arches numerous times, and he's done lateral orbital rim stuff before too. Stepping into uncharted territory is a risk sure, but with an experienced surgeon and meticulous designing of the implant - here's hoping that risk can be minimised.

[The Quest for Aesthetics]

Again, as of right now, there is nothing which can create high-set, masculine projecting cheekbones without risking your health long term. Silicone, medpor, HA paste, BIO-OSS it's all just not safe/satisfying enough. If CT bone don't turn out good, we need to wait for real 3d printed bone material implants using stem cells. That's about 5 to 10 years away.

Listen here. It's indisputable that there is no way to achieve all the elements of perfect zygomatic projection and set without custom made implants. No way at all. Silicone isn't ideal, sure. But it's either that or nothing at all. If we're serious about this stuff, there are certain compromises that have to be made. I for one am willing to accept the drawbacks of silicone in order to get the aesthetic result that I know to be achievable.

[Lestat]

BIO-OSS is also no good. Zarrinbal told me it's the same garbage as HA paste and did not recommend getting it. Apparently he have been helping numerous of patients with serious tissue/bone inflammation created by HA paste. He told me stories of bone being all mushy/ structurally compromised. Some were implant cases too. Real horror.

That is all nonsense and bulls**t!!!

The stories of it leading to tissue/bone inflammation / erosion etc. are anecdotal not laboratory results. HA f.e. has the same structure as natural bone so blood and tissue will grow into it.

http://www.arnettgunson.com/files/2015/02/hydroxyapatite.pdf

EDIT: I have informed the moderators and administrators!