Author Topic: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)  (Read 4167 times)

nycface

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What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« on: December 06, 2016, 10:11:11 PM »
When I brought up jaw surgery with my orthodontist, he looked at me like I was crazy. Any thoughts? Is my jaw that bad?

Link to pic:
http://imgur.com/1zzN9zp

JimmyTheGent

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 12:59:18 PM »
When I brought up jaw surgery with my orthodontist, he looked at me like I was crazy. Any thoughts? Is my jaw that bad?

Link to pic:
http://imgur.com/1zzN9zp

Im from NYC as well so maybe we can trade some ideas for possible surgeons and orthos??  Dont worry I get looked at like Im crazy when I bring up jaw surgery and I have Obstructive Sleep Apnea with narrow jaws and palate.   
The more I learn about the gamble that is jaw surgery the more afraid I become!!!   :-(

ditterbo

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 04:17:07 PM »
Sign me up (at least for surgeons).  I'm in the NYC area for all intensive purposes as well.

JayJaw

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2016, 06:19:39 AM »
Third NYC area guy. It seems, to me, like A&G are way to go but they are across country and so expensive that I'm resigned to probably not get surgery. Aside from the gum recession likely caused by my flared teeth, I don't really have any health issues. I do stay in good shape so I'm sure that helps against sleep apnea. Also, I think being very serious about retraining my tongue, jaw and neck muscles to apply proper posture has been of help too. I seem to be able to often sleep with my mouth closed sometimes too now. I'm hoping that these posture changes, while unlikely to change anything structurally, will help me remain good functionally.

I'm also fortunate to have decent beard growth that I use to mask some of my recession (chin) and don't have severely recessed jaws or poor looks that really impact my daily life. So, it just isn't worth it to pay so much for surgery that has so many risks.

Still, if you guys figure out an in-network or more inexpensive surgeon that applies the right aesthetic principals... then I'll open my mind to it again!

Also, I do sometimes just consider a sliding genioplasty only. I know that double jaw surgery will negative impact the look of my cheekbones (since they are recessed along with jaws) so unless I get extreme CCW without significant anterior movement (avoid concave cheeks)... just don't even know if I'll like my looks anyway. At least the sliding genio alone allows my cheek hollows and some semblance cheek projection while still helping to hide my recession.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Good luck to all you who keep on searching!

marcus3415

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2016, 08:51:17 AM »
Um...What is wrong with your jaw? I see Class 1...

JimmyTheGent

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2016, 10:26:40 AM »
Third NYC area guy. It seems, to me, like A&G are way to go but they are across country and so expensive that I'm resigned to probably not get surgery. Aside from the gum recession likely caused by my flared teeth, I don't really have any health issues. I do stay in good shape so I'm sure that helps against sleep apnea. Also, I think being very serious about retraining my tongue, jaw and neck muscles to apply proper posture has been of help too. I seem to be able to often sleep with my mouth closed sometimes too now. I'm hoping that these posture changes, while unlikely to change anything structurally, will help me remain good functionally.

I'm also fortunate to have decent beard growth that I use to mask some of my recession (chin) and don't have severely recessed jaws or poor looks that really impact my daily life. So, it just isn't worth it to pay so much for surgery that has so many risks.

Still, if you guys figure out an in-network or more inexpensive surgeon that applies the right aesthetic principals... then I'll open my mind to it again!

Also, I do sometimes just consider a sliding genioplasty only. I know that double jaw surgery will negative impact the look of my cheekbones (since they are recessed along with jaws) so unless I get extreme CCW without significant anterior movement (avoid concave cheeks)... just don't even know if I'll like my looks anyway. At least the sliding genio alone allows my cheek hollows and some semblance cheek projection while still helping to hide my recession.

Anyway, sorry for the rambling. Good luck to all you who keep on searching!

Not too far away from NYC in Ct is Dr Derek Steinbacher MD DDS FACS so he is both a Doctor, Dentist, and board certified plastic surgeon.   If he cant do double jaw surgery with an eye for aesthetics then I dont know who can.   He also teaches and does over 100 double jaw surgeries per year.  Plus he takes insurance!!
The more I learn about the gamble that is jaw surgery the more afraid I become!!!   :-(

nycface

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2016, 03:09:42 PM »
Um...What is wrong with your jaw? I see Class 1...

That was my question thanks. I know my bite is fine, but my chin is recessed and it makes my face look unbalanced. what about occlusional plane? How can I tell if it's steep or not?

CCW

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2016, 04:45:48 PM »
You have a Class II skeletal base with a pretty steep occlusal plane. Both jaws are recessed, so the bite looks ok. You need bimax with counterclockwise rotation to achieve a Class I jaw relationship.

ditterbo

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 07:59:32 PM »
Not too far away from NYC in Ct is Dr Derek Steinbacher MD DDS FACS so he is both a Doctor, Dentist, and board certified plastic surgeon.   If he cant do double jaw surgery with an eye for aesthetics then I dont know who can.   He also teaches and does over 100 double jaw surgeries per year.  Plus he takes insurance!!

Ah he fell off my radar for the longest time, I don't even recall why.  Have you seen him or know anyone who had treatment through him?

The NY metropolitan docs I see floated on forums are Dr. Super (on medical leave) and Dr. Stephen Sachs, but all I recall of people's reviews are basically average to meager results with the price tag of the best.  A nerve specialist referred me to Dr. Stephen Warren, who does bimax among many other similar type surgeries, but he only does bimax surgeries at a specific time of the year. That makes me think he doesn't do that many (forgot to ask).  His consult fee doesn't make sense either, $350 and out of network.

nycface

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 08:56:37 PM »
You have a Class II skeletal base with a pretty steep occlusal plane. Both jaws are recessed, so the bite looks ok. You need bimax with counterclockwise rotation to achieve a Class I jaw relationship.

Is it bad enough that insurance would cover it?

Why did my orthodontist tell me my jaw is fine?

CCW

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2016, 02:51:47 AM »
Is it bad enough that insurance would cover it?

Why did my orthodontist tell me my jaw is fine?
Do you have any issues like sleep apnea?

Orthodontists only care about your bite and teeth. If you have a Class I bite, they think you're fine.

Post your ceph and your profile to get a better idea.

JimmyTheGent

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2016, 10:22:24 AM »
Ah he fell off my radar for the longest time, I don't even recall why.  Have you seen him or know anyone who had treatment through him?

The NY metropolitan docs I see floated on forums are Dr. Super (on medical leave) and Dr. Stephen Sachs, but all I recall of people's reviews are basically average to meager results with the price tag of the best.  A nerve specialist referred me to Dr. Stephen Warren, who does bimax among many other similar type surgeries, but he only does bimax surgeries at a specific time of the year. That makes me think he doesn't do that many (forgot to ask).  His consult fee doesn't make sense either, $350 and out of network.

Dr Sachs is pretty highly regarded and I have yet to hear anyone say they didnt like his results.  His associate Dr Jay Neugarten is also pretty highly regarded he even has a write up about a surgery he did on an infant.  He basically rebuilt a newborn's whole jaw saving the baby from having to get a tracheotomy. 
The more I learn about the gamble that is jaw surgery the more afraid I become!!!   :-(

kjohnt

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2016, 02:51:25 PM »
Picture does not appear to be leveled properly such that the Frankfurt horizontal plane is horizontal, i.e. the head is looking down slightly.  This makes the occlusal plane appear steeper than it is.

I believe the red line I drew should be parallel; somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

[attachment deleted by admin]

PloskoPlus

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2016, 03:00:05 PM »
Dr Sachs is pretty highly regarded and I have yet to hear anyone say they didnt like his results.  His associate Dr Jay Neugarten is also pretty highly regarded he even has a write up about a surgery he did on an infant.  He basically rebuilt a newborn's whole jaw saving the baby from having to get a tracheotomy.
These things mean nothing.  You're a not an infant.  I got the laziest surgery possible from one of these paediatric heroes.  They care about function and "good enough" aesthetics. The mildly deformed are actually harder to treat because you want to look better not different and (a mm here or there can make a huge difference in such cases).  It's the same deal like people with terrible noses are the most satisfied after rhinoplasty, yet the mild cases most often aren't.

nycface

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Re: What do I need (3D CT Scan pic)
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2016, 07:15:37 PM »
Picture does not appear to be leveled properly such that the Frankfurt horizontal plane is horizontal, i.e. the head is looking down slightly.  This makes the occlusal plane appear steeper than it is.

I believe the red line I drew should be parallel; somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

That makes me feel better. I'm a little less deformed than I thought I was  ;D