What surgical technique do I need? Images included.

[Lazlo]

They NEVER tell the person wanting implants or bi max or what ever 'to look like a male model' that what the male models have that no one else is going to BUY is the EYES.

so true. or you get an idiot like my surgeon who did a buccal fat removal and it totally f**ked up one side of my face which i need to get revision on. f**king moron. oh and by the way, if you have flat cheeks no buccal fat removal does jack s**t.

[MyTimeIsNow]

They NEVER tell the person wanting implants or bi max or what ever 'to look like a male model' that what the male models have that no one else is going to BUY is the EYES.

I laugh everytime I hear someone proclaim that good looking people in Hollywood are like that because of all plastic surgeries. The truth is even in 2017 it's impossible to buy good looking face and all the techniques available are very limited.

[kavan]

I laugh everytime I hear someone proclaim that good looking people in Hollywood are like that because of all plastic surgeries. The truth is even in 2017 it's impossible to buy good looking face and all the techniques available are very limited.

Indeed. A lot of the Hollywood people were the really good looking ones in high school before any work. As for models, scouts go around looking for model material, often in out of the way 'corn fed' places in midwest where they discover 'fresh faces' of young people who have a look that they consider 'model material'. Also, the modeling agencies have a list of doctors if they feel some cosmetic work is needed. Then there is option for people who feel they could be models to just go to a modeling agency for some kind of evaluation.

Moral of story. For those wanting 'to look like a model', maybe go to a modeling agency FIRST and ask if that potential exists.

[kavan]

so true. or you get an idiot like my surgeon who did a buccal fat removal and it totally f**ked up one side of my face which i need to get revision on. f**king moron. oh and by the way, if you have flat cheeks no buccal fat removal does jack s**t.

Did they remove more on one side than the other? Sometimes, they can pop out the part directly in the buccal space. But if they keep pulling on it, it's connected higher UP the side of face and to the temple. So, pulling too much to get all of it out can remove from places where it's needed and wanted and result in some 'collapse' because some of  it supports the face.

Also, they never really know the size of it or the extent of it with regard to all it's connections above buccal space until they make the incision and start pulling on it. It's very uncertain surgery in terms of the ODDs of it doing the trick.

[JigJaw_:/]

Nu uh, Kavan. Kaityln Jenner did NOT look like that in high school.       

Speaking of fat, I'm hoping that little bit of pudge in the area under my neck tightens up just a bit from dropping my chin.

[kavan]

Nu uh, Kavan. Kaityln Jenner did NOT look like that in high school.       

Speaking of fat, I'm hoping that little bit of pudge in the area under my neck tightens up just a bit from dropping my chin.

He didn't look like a trans in high school but he was good looking.

http://static.celebuzz.com/uploads/2014/02/13/Bruce-Jenner-Young4.jpg

[JigJaw_:/]

I'm curious what other people have paid for genioplasty. I know it's going to differ. I had my first consult with a local max fax doctor. He wants 6,500, total.
2,100 (for vsp) planning, roughly 2,900 for the genioplasty, 800 for implant removal. The rest is anesthesia.
Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but why would the  surgeon charge me for implant removal? I would think since he's going to the same region (he's got to make the same incision in the lower lip to make the osteotomy on my chin. It's not screwed in, so, there's that to.
The virtual planning is definitely worth the bang for buck, but I couldn't find any comparative pricing on it. Thoughts? Concerns?

[David_D]

I can understand charging for removal of an implant.  I can imagine that a surgeon in general might find working on "virgin" tissue easier that tissue that had been previously operated upon.

I did not pay for my genioplasty - my HMO covered it and it followed orthognathic surgery, which was also covered.  I don't think the price you mentioned is notably high or low.

[kavan]

I'm curious what other people have paid for genioplasty. I know it's going to differ. I had my first consult with a local max fax doctor. He wants 6,500, total.
2,100 (for vsp) planning, roughly 2,900 for the genioplasty, 800 for implant removal. The rest is anesthesia.
Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but why would the  surgeon charge me for implant removal? I would think since he's going to the same region (he's got to make the same incision in the lower lip to make the osteotomy on my chin. It's not screwed in, so, there's that to.
The virtual planning is definitely worth the bang for buck, but I couldn't find any comparative pricing on it. Thoughts? Concerns?

It's pretty obvious to me why there would be an extra itemized charge for implant removal. But I would be more concerned as to why he's itemizing a separate charge for PLANNING the surgery. It's his obligation to plan a surgery. As to investments in VSP software to do so, that should be averaged out and factored into the cost of what ever he wants to charge for surgery he plans with the software.

I might be wrong but is it standard practice for a doc to itemize a separate charge for PLANNING a surgery? I mean, I can understand that IF you are just going there to obtain a plan that you can have another carry out for you or just want another to evaluate. But can't wrap my head around his itemizing a separate charge for planning a surgery.

Ask him if there is an option tp purchase the PLAN so you can take it to another for evaluation and see what he says.

[JigJaw_:/]

Wish insurance was covering mine. Would much rather keep 7k in the bank! To me the price seemed about average. How did your surgery turn out, David? Happy you did it?

[JigJaw_:/]

Well....
I think he itemized iit in this way bc he essentially gave me the option for either the standardized planning method (i.e. , no VSP planning) or VSP.  He seemed to believe that since I had a malpositioned implant, plus an already asymettrcal chin to begin with, that the end result would be closer to expectation if I used the vsp. They send all my imaging off to some lab in Colorado, said company sends back cutting templates/molds etc. which have been specifically designed for my case. So, I ssentially I could forgo the planning...but I think it behooves me to pay it. I don't think it's the software I'm paying for..(maybe a small percentage), but I would imagine the majority is build in for surgical equipment/tools.
I see Dr. Sinn this Friday. Was gonna compare the two, see how different the pricing differs. Poke a little more regarding planning. Both doctors do it "in house", so there's no surgery center cost; which I like.

[kavan]

So, you are saying he JOBS OUT the planning to a lab somewhere.  Yes. VSP is better than without it. But i would think a good maxfax  has these planning diagnostics IN HOUSE in addition to the skill set needed to plan the surgery.

Well....
I think he itemized iit in this way bc he essentially gave me the option for either the standardized planning method (i.e. , no VSP planning) or VSP.  He seemed to believe that since I had a malpositioned implant, plus an already asymettrcal chin to begin with, that the end result would be closer to expectation if I used the vsp. They send all my imaging off to some lab in Colorado, said company sends back cutting templates/molds etc. which have been specifically designed for my case. So, I ssentially I could forgo the planning...but I think it behooves me to pay it. I don't think it's the software I'm paying for..(maybe a small percentage), but I would imagine the majority is build in for surgical equipment/tools.
I see Dr. Sinn this Friday. Was gonna compare the two, see how different the pricing differs. Poke a little more regarding planning. Both doctors do it "in house", so there's no surgery center cost; which I like.

[PloskoPlus]

So, you are saying he JOBS OUT the planning to a lab somewhere.  Yes. VSP is better than without it. But i would think a good maxfax  has these planning diagnostics IN HOUSE in addition to the skill set needed to plan the surgery.

I think the Colorado place does no VSP, just 3d prints cutting guides, skull models etc.. I think Sinn uses them for skull models for his mod lf3s.

FWIW, in Australia planning is a separate billable item for orthognathic surgery (not sure about genioplasty). It's not optional.

[David_D]

I think the Colorado place does no VSP, just 3d prints cutting guides, skull models etc.. I think Sinn uses them for skull models for his mod lf3s.

FWIW, in Australia planning is a separate billable item for orthognathic surgery (not sure about genioplasty). It's not optional.

I've paid a fee for skull/jaw models to be developed previously to assist with surgical planning.  I see that as "providing data to facilitate surgical planning" rather than as surgical planning itself.

[David_D]

Wish insurance was covering mine. Would much rather keep 7k in the bank! To me the price seemed about average. How did your surgery turn out, David? Happy you did it?

I think that it gave an improvement.  I had it done over a decade ago.  I had lack of forward projection and a lot of vertical length.  The change was significant from the genioplasty alone.