Author Topic: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery  (Read 17960 times)

kavan

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2018, 06:44:27 AM »
One of the key movers and shakers in tissue engineering, which I recognize from the bibliography of that article, is Dr. Vacanti. He is listed in the references in that article. He's made scaffolds, seeded them with liver producing cells and has made a liver. Some time ago, I used to attend his lectures at MGH.

As to the article, it isn't entirely the 'science' of tissue engineering that's too 'basic'. A lot is a matter of bureaucratic, regulatory, financing, acceptance etc. hurdles  that impede it's progress and incorporation into mainstream medicine.

As to Epi-Bone, if you look at the team, although they have some studies under belt in tissue engineering, for the most part they are just young entrepreneurs.
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Lazlo

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #31 on: January 25, 2018, 03:08:20 PM »
One of the key movers and shakers in tissue engineering, which I recognize from the bibliography of that article, is Dr. Vacanti. He is listed in the references in that article. He's made scaffolds, seeded them with liver producing cells and has made a liver. Some time ago, I used to attend his lectures at MGH.

As to the article, it isn't entirely the 'science' of tissue engineering that's too 'basic'. A lot is a matter of bureaucratic, regulatory, financing, acceptance etc. hurdles  that impede it's progress and incorporation into mainstream medicine.

As to Epi-Bone, if you look at the team, although they have some studies under belt in tissue engineering, for the most part they are just young entrepreneurs.

You know your s**t Kavan. From your scientific estimation, does Epi-bone have a product in the pipeline within the next 3-5 years or are they just making s**t up?

PloskoPlus

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #32 on: January 25, 2018, 05:00:26 PM »
Most progress is during massive wars - putting the injured back in action in some sort of capacity as quickly as possible, or having lots of maimed vets to experiment on afterwards. Antibiotics, distraction osteogenesis came out of ww2.

kavan

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2018, 01:26:22 PM »
You know your s**t Kavan. From your scientific estimation, does Epi-bone have a product in the pipeline within the next 3-5 years or are they just making s**t up?

Well, it just looks like what they (others) are already doing with STEM CELLS. You know, taking FAT and getting the stem cells out of it and seeding them onto to a scaffold and getting them to turn into the body part you want.

IDK, on their PRESS page, most of the press is their own f**king Twitter feeds. They just seem to be a start up company looking for VENTURE CAPITAL.

I can tell you that what they are doing CAN be done. You know, get a CT scan of a shape of a bone defect, get a scaffold on which to populate the stem cells extracted from fat. But then again from the same CT scan of a bone defect shape, a 3D 'fix it' shape can also be made from another bio compatible material via 3 d printing. So, a 3D print out from a CT scan for a construct from a bio-compatible material is going to be much faster to kick up than for those stem cells to develop into bone on the scaffold.

There is also a level of, how do I say...'immaturity' about them where they are making jewelry out of the process like some ugly earings and silly smart phone cover. OK. FINE. They are trying to fuse 'art with science'.

The illustration they have is a skull with a HOLE in it's head. LOL, WTF...they are looking for cases where someone has a hole in their head to be filled with bone?

Are you interested in INVESTING in them? The bio tech firms that get the investments are the ones close to MIT and MGH where they got all the staff doing the stuff right there.
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Lefortitude

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2018, 07:03:19 AM »
In vivo bioreaction has proven it works.  Not sure why nobodys started a company to develope it for cosmetic uses.  that would be a CASHCOW.  maybe il start one up...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vivo_bioreactor

If youre pessimistic, you gotta realize how small the field of maxfac surgery is compared to something like orthopedic surgery.  in addition, 30 years is nothing in medical terms of technological and sociological advancements.  were moving at an exponential rate.  hopefully the next generation has it better than we do.

april

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Austinou88

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2018, 12:04:02 PM »
This woman doesn't know s**t.


This is just a very basic introduction to the topic. Definitely not for specialists. All she does is give an overview of what surgery is like today. She doesn't even go into things like CCW which would prevent needing the extreme 10-15mm advancements needed for sleep apnea. What a dumb dumb. The she does a bit of brou-haha about the future with augmented reality and remote surgery but obviously that s**t is still several years away. So yeah cool, but not relevant for us.

DICOM and all that s**t is used by everyone now. So that's hardly new. And it doesn't ensure a great result. She doesn't go into grafting materials or whatever. Gunson and Arnett are way advanced. And how is any of this the newest innovative stuff? It's not new at all.
Lazlo do you have anything you could recommend reading or watching to understand all the basics of how things work with Jaw surgery?
That way you can get a basic idea whether your surgeon is using the best type of approaches or not? I've gotta go with an in-network guy.

Lazlo

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2018, 02:07:15 PM »
Lazlo do you have anything you could recommend reading or watching to understand all the basics of how things work with Jaw surgery?
That way you can get a basic idea whether your surgeon is using the best type of approaches or not? I've gotta go with an in-network guy.

I don't, but you could just google methods of jaw surgery on youtube or something. I don't know. Your doctor should clearly explain what is being done.

Austinou88

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2018, 04:00:40 PM »
I don't, but you could just google methods of jaw surgery on youtube or something. I don't know. Your doctor should clearly explain what is being done.
Yeah I get that, I was basically just trying to see if there was a guide that could help you with what type of warning signs to look out for when talking with the surgeon.

I was also wondering if age and lots of years of experience could end up being a bad thing when going with a surgeon.
Like, are there better, newer approaches & methods used in jaw surgery now that a surgeon with 20 or 30 years experience wouldn't do? Or is it all the same stuff?

ForeverAloneDude

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2018, 06:30:55 PM »
Apparently the reason why there was the minimally invasive revolution of fillers and fat graft was because US doctors were / are terrified of being sued. If that's true then I don't know why most other western countries followed suit. But yeah as for fillers there are the other factors like less hassle, less complications and possibly more profitable than implants in the long term if you get the patient hooked.
I wonder if they teach surgeons studying plastic surgery about implants as comprehensively now as they used to, or if they are even discouraged.

"but until then, we're in the dark ages." That's one way of looking at it but I think it's pretty incredible what changes can be done through the right surgery. I am grateful for all the options that we have at our disposal.

Its not only that, but its also a money issue from the patient's standpoint. You have to realize that a large majority of Americans don't even have $1000USD of savings! If this is the case, then how the heck would anyone be able to afford even a $5000 procedure? They couldn't. Filler and botox is much more obtainable. And surgeons are catering to this.

Now, that said, upper middle class Americans could afford more crazy hardcore osteotomies, but I guess they want to cater to the masses and even often push BS, useless, waste-of-time procedures onto the upper middle class audience.

"I am grateful for all the options that we have at our disposal."

What options? Sorry to be pessimistic, but honestly there isn't much that can be done. I saw an awesome result for a monobloc osteotomy that people were initially like "wait, that's the same person?" But never in hell will we be able to find a surgeon who does it cosmetically.

What is needed is artificial bone, better AI for automated procedure, or at least semi automated procedures to allow precise cuts, and surgeons to explore and go into more "exotic" procedures (obscure ones) and what not.

But really, if one is rich and motivated to want a better face (actual improvements too), then hell, he/she could even create a research team specifically for them, lol. Think about a guy who makes 5 million dollars a year. That guy could spend 2 million dollars a year on a doctor or two and a small set of researchers along with equipment, etc to make them research that guy's specific case and take specific precautions, etc to do crazy stuff which they might be willing to do at a high price.

PloskoPlus

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2018, 05:15:09 AM »
But really, if one is rich and motivated to want a better face (actual improvements too), then hell, he/she could even create a research team specifically for them, lol. Think about a guy who makes 5 million dollars a year. That guy could spend 2 million dollars a year on a doctor or two and a small set of researchers along with equipment, etc to make them research that guy's specific case and take specific precautions, etc to do crazy stuff which they might be willing to do at a high price.
2 million is not gonna buy you anything.

ForeverAloneDude

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2018, 12:01:54 PM »
2 million is not gonna buy you anything.

Ye I realize I underestimated. Like I said it's all f**ked. But my point stands. It's more like space program tier money and you would have to be a billionaire.

Austinou88

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2018, 08:00:16 PM »
That was a great video, and really helped explain the whole process really well.
Is there anything else you could recommend watching?

Also what do you think of this article? https://blog.profilosurgical.com.au/blog/jaw-surgery-your-questions-answered

Austinou88

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Re: Stanford lecture on the State of the Art in Jaw Surgery
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2018, 08:15:33 PM »
Yeah here too, that's what makes it so scary. Your average dips**t dentist and even orthos who have referred a bunch of people don't actually know anything about it or the techniques. I kid you not. My ortho didn't even know what the difference between CW and CCW was or whether expansion could be done surgically. Oh God its so depressing.

Honestly folks, I've given up on science. Until I can get my extracted teeth back nothing can be truly fixed. 2018, Elon Musk is bulls**tting everyone about sending a f**king Tesla to Mars, but guys we're no where close to the future.

f**king iPhone X and augmented reality and all that useless s**t but medically WE ARE IN THE DARK AGES. There has been absolutely ZERO innovations in the practoce of maxillofacial surgery. And most who do it are pretty s**tty at it. I've given up on science. f**k Ray Kurzweil this s**t is moving WAY WAY too slowly for me. We can't even get proper hair replacement surgery yet leave alone new teeth. Imagine what people thought was gone happen back in 2000. 18 years later, nada.
Lazlo, there are a couple great hair specialist that are
doing some great work out there. I actually had a consult
with one as of recently.

To the extent the f****** jaw surgery procedures and
methods go. Are dental students really not being shown the
advanced s***?  How the hell are you expected to get a
decent outcome from something when you're when you're
anticipating that the OMFS should know everything. Don't
great before/afters state enough? I think I know about as
much information as that video shows. LOL