WE need to TALK ABOUT CHEEKBONES

[kavan]

I haven't seen good results via implants. I'm sure lazlo hasn't either hence that. Also yeah I think he's trying to be a bit too opportunistic and coping hard with the muh future stuff.

I wish medical technology development was like electronics with rapidness.

I've seen good and bad results. It depends on the person's 'start point' and also the type of cheek implant. Personally, I can look at a photo (well 3 actually; front, profile and 3/4 view) and can tell IF a person would benefit by an implant (or even a bone cut) and what type or just WHERE the augmentation should be. It's kind of futile to discuss cheek implants in the absence of seeing what the CANDIDACY may or may not be.

For the most part, this is not a matter of 'high technology'. It is more of a matter of having an ARTISTIC EYE, the ability to SEE (visualize) what is NOT THERE on the face and knowing what is needed to put it there. Ability to 'see', astute observation is a LOST ART. It's not a 'high tech' thing.

I went to school (MIT) with the best and the brightest as far as high technology goes. What most of them had in common was artistic and aesthetic BLINDNESS. So good luck to you and Lazlo just waiting for the tech geniuses to design your face.

[ditterbo]

They're trade offs with implants, and agree with who can develop into model material. I was just looking for example results with what looks to me like significant, natural improvements in looks with the right jaw and cheek implant combo's. The alternative result for the nerd with the huge jaw wrap around could've been a chin with an unnaturally strong labiomental sulcus, if they opted for a non-vertical lengthening, 'regular' style shape. Or they could've gone custom to get the best result, but they didn't. Still it looks enhancing in that my eyes don't get drawn to the jaw area in a bad way. Looks great to me especially considering his start point, though it'll probably soften 20% or so once all swelling goes. He ideally would have gotten bimax first, but not bad alternative from what I can see.

[ForeverAloneDude]

I've seen good and bad results. It depends on the person's 'start point' and also the type of cheek implant. Personally, I can look at a photo (well 3 actually; front, profile and 3/4 view) and can tell IF a person would benefit by an implant (or even a bone cut) and what type or just WHERE the augmentation should be. It's kind of futile to discuss cheek implants in the absence of seeing what the CANDIDACY may or may not be.

For the most part, this is not a matter of 'high technology'. It is more of a matter of having an ARTISTIC EYE, the ability to SEE (visualize) what is NOT THERE on the face and knowing what is needed to put it there. Ability to 'see', astute observation is a LOST ART. It's not a 'high tech' thing.

I went to school (MIT) with the best and the brightest as far as high technology goes. What most of them had in common was artistic and aesthetic BLINDNESS. So good luck to you and Lazlo just waiting for the tech geniuses to design your face.

Sure I'll do that after i have lost enough weight.

I'm not the tech sort here. Lazlo is. Well start point implies that the person already has good definition, no? Basically where the before and afters look pretty much the same.

[kavan]

Sure I'll do that after i have lost enough weight.

I'm not the tech sort here. Lazlo is. Well start point implies that the person already has good definition, no? Basically where the before and afters look pretty much the same.

Start point is how they look without cheek augmentation.  Something where the cheek enhancement can be the 'icing on the cake' if the rest of the cake is 'baked evenly'.

[Lazlo]

Well, not every guy (actually very few) is going to look more like a male model even if they get the cheek implants 'like a male model'. That sort of thing only works well if the person ALMOST looks like a male model EXCEPT for the cheek area. Male models have special 'magic' eye sockets that can't be reproduced via surgery. They all (well most of them) have the very 'long' narrow eyes going on and due to that most of the rest of the bone structure is good too. So, unless someone STARTS with those type of EYES, no amount of bone augmentation will be making anyone looking like a model.

As to the links you gave:

Eppley's example:

He shows a MALE MODEL for the photo. But the bone scan image with implants--well WHO KNOWS what the guy looks like IN THE FLESH.

Yaremchuck's example:

The guy looks better. But hope he didn't expect to 'look like a model'.

The 3rd example just looks like a nerdy guy who's now got a chin that is TOO BIG/long for the jaw. When the chin is made longer that way, the back of the jaw angle can look too relatively high.

NONE of them look 'like models' BUT MAYBE didn't expect that. If all they wanted was more boney projection where they each got it, then all is good.

But some of these docs, especially Eppley, really go after the guys looking for the 'model look'. But few to none of the 'I want to look like a model' types will ever look like one. That's because the male models all have a type of EYE SOCKET that NEVER can be reproduced. It's the type of socket where the eyes are horizontally 'long' where the eyes are spaced apart 'one eye' length. So, that means their HEADS area also proportionally LARGE.

Thing with the male models is IF they have the EYE AREA going on, they also have the BROW covering over that going on too and most likely the UNDER EYE bone support to orbital rim and the HIGH cheek bone area. It's ALL in the EYES; the SOCKETS. That's what male models (females too) that can NEVER be reproduced with plastic or bone surgery.

The docs appeal to guys who want that stuff to look more 'like a model' but they NEVER tell them straight on that they WILL NOT look like a male model (unless they start out with the EYES and only need some jaw or chin work.) I've seen but ugly guys on real self asking the doctors how they can get 'this or that' like a male model and not one of them tell them that they will NEVER get the look of the model. They just try to sell them on their services.

Here is EXAMPLE:  Guy on RealSelf asks the doctors 'how to get cheeks like a MODEL'.
NONE of them break it to him that he has NO CHANCE of EVER looking remotely like a male model whether or not he gets cheek augmentation 'like the models have'.

https://www.realself.com/question/chiseled-and-hollow-cheeks-like-male-model#media-question-657613-image-156365

ETA: This is not the actual guy asking the question. It's someone using other people's photos. But just goes to show, none of the doctor responses told the guy straight out, no way he's going to look anything like a model.

I know its sickening how friggin immoral those docs are. I mean sickening. I have had certain docs for e.g. Arnett tell me things in a very honest way saying listen this is the truth. And also oddly some Korean docs I consulted with were like you don't want to to go there it will bring you only sorrow.

Anyway, I'm just waiting for like some advancements in technology. No point my posting about these hopes here.

Foreveralone dude YOU f**kING MORON WHY THE f**k ARE YOU FOREVER ALONE DUDE IF YOU DON"T WANT DATING ADVICE!!!? ARE YOU AUTISTIC!!!!!??

AND WHY DO YOU WANT TO ALL THIS RADICAL SURGERY IF YOU CAN FIND AN ATTRACTIVE LIFE PARTNER ON YOUR OWN WITHOUT THE ADVICE OF OTHER PEOPLE? GIVE ME A BREAK BRAH!!!!

Check yourself!

[haven]

Most doctor on realself sound like they're trying sell people on their services, rather than being more honest. I do sometimes come across some doctors who give honest comments. Those are seldom though.

Best comment I found was from this guy -

"You are normal, not weird.  Your chin is not weak.  Your jawline and neck are normal.  The societal pressure to try to live up to some "ideal" is intense and unfair.  I'm concerned that websites like this might be making it worse.  I can see that you have gotten some horrible advice from other doctors here.  Shame on them. "

Foreveralonedude will be forever alone if he doesn't work on improving himself internally before fixing whatever hideous defects he thinks he has.

[kavan]

Most doctor on realself sound like they're trying sell people on their services, rather than being more honest. I do sometimes come across some doctors who give honest comments. Those are seldom though.

Best comment I found was from this guy -

"You are normal, not weird.  Your chin is not weak.  Your jawline and neck are normal.  The societal pressure to try to live up to some "ideal" is intense and unfair.  I'm concerned that websites like this might be making it worse.  I can see that you have gotten some horrible advice from other doctors here.  Shame on them. "

Foreveralonedude will be forever alone if he doesn't work on improving himself internally before fixing whatever hideous defects he thinks he has.

I saw that on RS. Most of the doctors on there are on AUTO-PILOT where a LOT of them just copy and paste the SAME (boiler plate) content for multiple questions and repeatedly do that just so their NAMES are recognized.

Here's the link to the RS post: https://www.realself.com/question/wilmington-nc-weak-chin-definition-jawline

The OTHER doctors who gave responses are examples of the auto-pilot boiler plate ones that frequently 'answer' the questions.

[ForeverAloneDude]

Most doctor on realself sound like they're trying sell people on their services, rather than being more honest. I do sometimes come across some doctors who give honest comments. Those are seldom though.

Best comment I found was from this guy -

"You are normal, not weird.  Your chin is not weak.  Your jawline and neck are normal.  The societal pressure to try to live up to some "ideal" is intense and unfair.  I'm concerned that websites like this might be making it worse.  I can see that you have gotten some horrible advice from other doctors here.  Shame on them. "

Foreveralonedude will be forever alone if he doesn't work on improving himself internally before fixing whatever hideous defects he thinks he has.

I didn't say I'm not doing everything I can non surgically.

[PloskoPlus]

Kavan is spot on about eyes.  They don't call eyes "the windows to the soul" for nothing.

[Jilkster]

I've seen some eye area surgery results that were very impressive, one in particular I'm not allowed to share. I'd say getting to, or near, a male model type eye area is a lot more doable than some people here think.

[Lazlo]

I've seen some eye area surgery results that were very impressive, one in particular I'm not allowed to share. I'd say getting to, or near, a male model type eye area is a lot more doable than some people here think.

Okay, you can't share the person who had the surgery but you can share the names of the exact procedures and the exact name of the doctor and what procedure or procedures were done. Right? Or else you can f**k the hell right off.

[Jilkster]

Okay, you can't share the person who had the surgery but you can share the names of the exact procedures and the exact name of the doctor and what procedure or procedures were done. Right? Or else you can f**k the hell right off.

Taban, it was a combination of various procedures.

[Lestat]

If you are looking for a biological solution, then cheek implants by rib cartilage grafts may be the best choice for you.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/psi/2015/849802/

Dr. Wolfe: "My experience is that whatever kind of bone it is, when you place it as an onlay graft in the chin you can expect a tremendous amount of resorption, up to 100%."

So even if it is possible to grow bones from your own cells, this (resorption) could be a problem as the bone needs some function in order not to resorb.

Dr. Wolfe: "If you place a bone graft as an interpositional graft in lengthening the chin, which in this particular case
you don’t want to do, very little is absorbed."

-"If you want to use autologous tissue as a chin implant, costal cartilage doesn’t resorb the way a bone graft will."

https://watermark.silverchair.com/19-2-141.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAaYwggGiBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGTMIIBjwIBADCCAYgGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMF1tELU8yp3f3T1PlAgEQgIIBWeEKvZrqASe5v5XmWOF551wmAFp4BgyxLicWGMK_AQIwvbrCeguPSDL8Q0J-YJEaTiLR7_1QFxvP6AOhxFI_Ci14RKXBtvQK_wpircSSl5evrN478WPcvo6EL1mpmJ4ShmtnbIZWMhobG-3xZpQBc04ZQTBuKMs7OC0gDa0im8D3CMp5zv9kP9Rv4v7MWHpqBJmTf0AX4aTAorK1Yg7ZWrbYryW4ZqlI50chq6oyb95ernyxc6B3QKv3sFpDSY_hgKSujBMaueyhU99HoDSn4lJNglo5PCQsw2EOqHgVdcWvwbWQK4POtalz9PpYF6vcjEMnpyLMCSMhPcy_81XdcDDzUVFlRyNWkunmQa9Tg-bsKjsRzBFgAW0wIDd3I4Pj4toFbj8uLTQ_-m-hFphePngpC8k_9S27M2Emk6iWzoURzNYZtlyzeZ091QB5io6ZNXVLzNqTKKUliA

[Lazlo]

If you are looking for a biological solution, then cheek implants by rib cartilage grafts may be the best choice for you.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/psi/2015/849802/

Dr. Wolfe: "My experience is that whatever kind of bone it is, when you place it as an onlay graft in the chin you can expect a tremendous amount of resorption, up to 100%."

So even if it is possible to grow bones from your own cells, this (resorption) could be a problem as the bone needs some function in order not to resorb.

Dr. Wolfe: "If you place a bone graft as an interpositional graft in lengthening the chin, which in this particular case
you don’t want to do, very little is absorbed."

-"If you want to use autologous tissue as a chin implant, costal cartilage doesn’t resorb the way a bone graft will."

https://watermark.silverchair.com/19-2-141.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAaYwggGiBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGTMIIBjwIBADCCAYgGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMF1tELU8yp3f3T1PlAgEQgIIBWeEKvZrqASe5v5XmWOF551wmAFp4BgyxLicWGMK_AQIwvbrCeguPSDL8Q0J-YJEaTiLR7_1QFxvP6AOhxFI_Ci14RKXBtvQK_wpircSSl5evrN478WPcvo6EL1mpmJ4ShmtnbIZWMhobG-3xZpQBc04ZQTBuKMs7OC0gDa0im8D3CMp5zv9kP9Rv4v7MWHpqBJmTf0AX4aTAorK1Yg7ZWrbYryW4ZqlI50chq6oyb95ernyxc6B3QKv3sFpDSY_hgKSujBMaueyhU99HoDSn4lJNglo5PCQsw2EOqHgVdcWvwbWQK4POtalz9PpYF6vcjEMnpyLMCSMhPcy_81XdcDDzUVFlRyNWkunmQa9Tg-bsKjsRzBFgAW0wIDd3I4Pj4toFbj8uLTQ_-m-hFphePngpC8k_9S27M2Emk6iWzoURzNYZtlyzeZ091QB5io6ZNXVLzNqTKKUliA

No if they synthesize jaw bone it will work perfectly. But whatever. I think right now only doing a double ZSO plust malar osteotomy/mfl3 is the best bet.

[kavan]

If you are looking for a biological solution, then cheek implants by rib cartilage grafts may be the best choice for you.

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/psi/2015/849802/

Dr. Wolfe: "My experience is that whatever kind of bone it is, when you place it as an onlay graft in the chin you can expect a tremendous amount of resorption, up to 100%."

So even if it is possible to grow bones from your own cells, this (resorption) could be a problem as the bone needs some function in order not to resorb.

Dr. Wolfe: "If you place a bone graft as an interpositional graft in lengthening the chin, which in this particular case
you don’t want to do, very little is absorbed."

-"If you want to use autologous tissue as a chin implant, costal cartilage doesn’t resorb the way a bone graft will."

https://watermark.silverchair.com/19-2-141.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAaYwggGiBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggGTMIIBjwIBADCCAYgGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMF1tELU8yp3f3T1PlAgEQgIIBWeEKvZrqASe5v5XmWOF551wmAFp4BgyxLicWGMK_AQIwvbrCeguPSDL8Q0J-YJEaTiLR7_1QFxvP6AOhxFI_Ci14RKXBtvQK_wpircSSl5evrN478WPcvo6EL1mpmJ4ShmtnbIZWMhobG-3xZpQBc04ZQTBuKMs7OC0gDa0im8D3CMp5zv9kP9Rv4v7MWHpqBJmTf0AX4aTAorK1Yg7ZWrbYryW4ZqlI50chq6oyb95ernyxc6B3QKv3sFpDSY_hgKSujBMaueyhU99HoDSn4lJNglo5PCQsw2EOqHgVdcWvwbWQK4POtalz9PpYF6vcjEMnpyLMCSMhPcy_81XdcDDzUVFlRyNWkunmQa9Tg-bsKjsRzBFgAW0wIDd3I4Pj4toFbj8uLTQ_-m-hFphePngpC8k_9S27M2Emk6iWzoURzNYZtlyzeZ091QB5io6ZNXVLzNqTKKUliA

Although the link you gave says 'time out' to me when I try to look at it, the rest of what you mentioned makes sense to me. To the best of my knowledge it has to be a bone SANDWICH where the graft is smack between cut bone surfaces where the bone surfaces have blood supply;inter-positional graft. If a bone graft if just sitting there on top of something like an implant does and is not sandwiched in, then it will resorb.

 Between a bone cut as a BUTTRESS to the 2 sections left from the bone cut. But not as an overlay.