Minimally invasive lefort 1 alternative (why is this not more well known?)

[kavan]

No, I think from my ceph this is the procedure that was made for me. I would accept your input if you want to take a look at it

I would just appreciate some patient input and coordination when working with the surgeon which I know sometimes doesn't happen with the big wig types.

So your saying pretty much cooperating or not that this should be the only doctor to do that procedure on me. And I am inclined to agree which is why I am going to see him for a consult.

Post it ON BOARD and I will take a look at it. What my saying breaks down to is that if you think this procedure was made for you, than seek out the doctor that does it and rule out the doctor/s that DON'T do it.

[dardok]

Post it ON BOARD and I will take a look at it. What my saying breaks down to is that if you think this procedure was made for you, than seek out the doctor that does it and rule out the doctor/s that DON'T do it.

So I also concacted the surgeon behind the, other paper, Park- Young Wook. http://kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=OOMSBS_2009_v31n6_485

From the emails he told me he would be willing to come overseas to do the surgery provided the expenses are paid. He says he travels to vietnam ever year to show procedures.

He also said I am free to visit him.


This is a very good offer considering that Alfaro has not even responded yet and his prices may be much higher. However there is less information about this guy and we dont know if he has the volume of experience alfaro does.

Presumably from the paper alone hes done this procedure dozens of times  at the least.

What do you think, should i see him or alfaro?

[kavan]

So I also concacted the surgeon behind the, other paper, Park- Young Wook. http://kpubs.org/article/articleMain.kpubs?articleANo=OOMSBS_2009_v31n6_485

From the emails he told me he would be willing to come overseas to do the surgery provided the expenses are paid. He says he travels to vietnam ever year to show procedures.

He also said I am free to visit him.


This is a very good offer considering that Alfaro has not even responded yet and his prices may be much higher. However there is less information about this guy and we dont know if he has the volume of experience alfaro does.

Presumably from the paper alone hes done this procedure dozens of times  at the least.

What do you think, should i see him or alfaro?

From the abstract of the paper, he is doing the the U osteo WITH a Lefort 1 and NOT as a stand alone procedure as in Alfaro's paper.
I've already given you my take on consulting with the doctor who is conversant with doing the ISOLATED procedure that YOU have targeted yourself as being a candidate for. However, if you find other doctors who do this, there is no harm in going on MULTIPLE consults as in adding another doctor to your consult list, presently consisting of ONE doctor; Alfaro.


[Abstract
Postoperative skeletal stability was evaluated in combination of Le Fort I and U-shaped osteotomies for superior repositioning of maxilla in bi-maxillary surgeries in 30 consecutive patients. The fifteen patients underwent Le Fort I osteotomy alone and the other fifteen patients underwent Le Fort I and U-shaped osteotomies. In all patients, the maxilla was first osteomized and fixed with absorbable plates system. A bilateral sagittal split ramus osteotomy (BSSRO) of the mandible was then carried out and fixation was performed using absorbable plates. Maxillo-mandibular fixation with rubber ring was used for two weeks post-operatively in all patients. Lateral cephalograms were obtained pre-operatively, 1 day post-operatively, 6 months after surgery. The changes in anterior nasal spine (ANS), point A, upper incisior (U1), and point of maxillary tuberosity (PMT) were examined. The maxillas in the fifteen patients of both examination group were repositioned nearly in their planned positions during surgery and no significant post-operative changes in the examined points of the maxilla were found. These results suggest that a combination of a Le Fort I and U-shaped osteotomy is a useful technique for reliable superior repositioning of the maxilla. The post-operative change in the maxilla using this combination osteotomy was comparatively stable.]

[dardok]

So the guys reception is absolutely terrible. I call in several times and it's clear they dont speak english so I ask if they have any english speaker on staff. I get a hang up every time.

I submitted an application for a consult online but have not heard back in weeks about it.

I call the Valencia branch, they tell me to wait 15 minutes and call back, I call back in 15 minutes getting a message that the location is closed.


Im f**king amazed honestly. I'm not sure how they treat other international patients but how the f**k does this guy become successful with receptionists who only speak spanish.

[Lefortitude]

So the guys reception is absolutely terrible. I call in several times and it's clear they dont speak english so I ask if they have any english speaker on staff. I get a hang up every time.

I submitted an application for a consult online but have not heard back in weeks about it.

I call the Valencia branch, they tell me to wait 15 minutes and call back, I call back in 15 minutes getting a message that the location is closed.


Im f**king amazed honestly. I'm not sure how they treat other international patients but how the f**k does this guy become successful with receptionists who only speak spanish.

i consulted with alfaro, and this was not my experience at all. their receptionists always spoke english, always responded promptly and were always on time.

[kavan]

So the guys reception is absolutely terrible. I call in several times and it's clear they dont speak english so I ask if they have any english speaker on staff. I get a hang up every time.

I submitted an application for a consult online but have not heard back in weeks about it.

I call the Valencia branch, they tell me to wait 15 minutes and call back, I call back in 15 minutes getting a message that the location is closed.


Im f**king amazed honestly. I'm not sure how they treat other international patients but how the f**k does this guy become successful with receptionists who only speak spanish.

 It's clear they don't speak English. So you asked something in English and expected them to understand you. Classic.

[strongjawman]

He's away on vacation until the end of August anyway.

[dardok]

It's clear they don't speak English. So you asked something in English and expected them to understand you. Classic.

Because they say OK hold on a second and then hang up. I even said I do not speak spanish in there language.

I think your are assuming too much buddy.

[dardok]

i consulted with alfaro, and this was not my experience at all. their receptionists always spoke english, always responded promptly and were always on time.

Did you call the instituto maxillofacial?

From my experience that is not possible. Or maybe im just really unlucky xd.

[kavan]

Because they say OK hold on a second and then hang up. I even said I do not speak spanish in there language.

I think your are assuming too much buddy.

I assumed what you stated in the FIRST place that it was 'CLEAR they did not speak English'.  So, tell me how 'clear it was that they did not speak English' when they told you 'Ok, hold on a second'. You just negated your first statement.

Would it be too much for me to assume that you started out here with a stick up your ass finding reasons to avoid the guy in the first place.

[dardok]

Lol, knowing a simple phrase =/= speaking the language

xd

[dardok]

I assumed what you stated in the FIRST place that it was 'CLEAR they did not speak English'.  So, tell me how 'clear it was that they did not speak English' when they told you 'Ok, hold on a second'. You just negated your first statement.

Would it be too much for me to assume that you started out here with a stick up your ass finding reasons to avoid the guy in the first place.

So, I am making plans to see Alfaro in Spain. What are your thoughts on the pros and cons of having surgery done in Spain?

I think that due to the language and country barrier in the event something goes wrong it will be hard to get ahold of the surgeon. Although they did say my payment would cover up to a year after and Alfaro said if the result is not good he can just reverse it.

However low risk and straightforward nature of this procedure means that this sort of complication may be rarer than say, in a double jaw surgery case.

[kavan]

So, I am making plans to see Alfaro in Spain. What are your thoughts on the pros and cons of having surgery done in Spain?

I think that due to the language and country barrier in the event something goes wrong it will be hard to get ahold of the surgeon. Although they did say my payment would cover up to a year after and Alfaro said if the result is not good he can just reverse it.

However low risk and straightforward nature of this procedure means that this sort of complication may be rarer than say, in a double jaw surgery case.

In Spain....in SPAIN...in SPAIN...Barcelona...in a place rich in cultural history with beautiful architecture...wonderful food...close to Andorra where the Pyrenees are...close to the border of France. My gawd...I'd be looking at it as an opportunity to STAY THERE for a LONG TIME and NOT in terms of coming back soon.

So, you're asking the WRONG person, a Europhile who would view it as an opportunity to STAY in a place rich in cultural history for as long as possible, a chance to BROADEN one's HORIZONS.
I'd be looking at the MAP to determine how far is Seville, a place to experience Flamenco music and dancing, how far is Cordoba where they have torture museum of Spanish inquisition,  how far is the Prado to view works of Goya and other master Spanish painters, how far is the Alhambra; a work of wonderful architecture, I'd want to visit the Bullfighting museum in BARCELONA, and also the Picasso Museum there, experience the Pyrenees/Andorra which are near by as is the border of France.

Suffice to say, I would NOT be thinking in terms of having surgery there as a 'con' BECAUSE INSTEAD, I would be thinking in terms of STAYING THERE for an EXTENDED period of time which would be a 'PRO' to me. The only 'con' to me, personally would be same con of other times when I visited Europe which was HAVING TO BE SCRAPED OF THE AIRPORT FLOOR to go back to US and regretting to buy a one way ticket because I didn't want to go back. But 'had to'.

If I were getting surgery in Barcelona, I would WANT to stay there for an extended period of time if I had the resources to do so. If the stay had to be 'used up' by having to have some problem with the surgery rectified, so be it because you're already there. If it didn't have to be 'used up' for any issue following the surgery, it could be spent enjoying what the location and it's surrounds has to offer.

Sorry, but hard for me, personally to 'identify' with someone who would even WANT to go back to North America soon after being in a place like Barcelona or who would not be thinking in terms of; 'How can I arrange/manage to STAY there for an extended period of time'.

You need to ask someone who doesn't think in terms of how great it would be to stay there for an extended period of time whether it's to be close enough IF there is an issue with the surgery or just be close enough to opportunities to see persons, places and things for which North America does not offer the SAME opportunities.

[dardok]

In Spain....in SPAIN...in SPAIN...Barcelona...in a place rich in cultural history with beautiful architecture...wonderful food...close to Andorra where the Pyrenees are...close to the border of France. My gawd...I'd be looking at it as an opportunity to STAY THERE for a LONG TIME and NOT in terms of coming back soon.

So, you're asking the WRONG person, a Europhile who would view it as an opportunity to STAY in a place rich in cultural history for as long as possible, a chance to BROADEN one's HORIZONS.
I'd be looking at the MAP to determine how far is Seville, a place to experience Flamenco music and dancing, how far is Cordoba where they have torture museum of Spanish inquisition,  how far is the Prado to view works of Goya and other master Spanish painters, how far is the Alhambra; a work of wonderful architecture, I'd want to visit the Bullfighting museum in BARCELONA, and also the Picasso Museum there, experience the Pyrenees/Andorra which are near by as is the border of France.

Suffice to say, I would NOT be thinking in terms of having surgery there as a 'con' BECAUSE INSTEAD, I would be thinking in terms of STAYING THERE for an EXTENDED period of time which would be a 'PRO' to me. The only 'con' to me, personally would be same con of other times when I visited Europe which was HAVING TO BE SCRAPED OF THE AIRPORT FLOOR to go back to US and regretting to buy a one way ticket because I didn't want to go back. But 'had to'.

If I were getting surgery in Barcelona, I would WANT to stay there for an extended period of time if I had the resources to do so. If the stay had to be 'used up' by having to have some problem with the surgery rectified, so be it because you're already there. If it didn't have to be 'used up' for any issue following the surgery, it could be spent enjoying what the location and it's surrounds has to offer.

Sorry, but hard for me, personally to 'identify' with someone who would even WANT to go back to North America soon after being in a place like Barcelona or who would not be thinking in terms of; 'How can I arrange/manage to STAY there for an extended period of time'.

You need to ask someone who doesn't think in terms of how great it would be to stay there for an extended period of time whether it's to be close enough IF there is an issue with the surgery or just be close enough to opportunities to see persons, places and things for which North America does not offer the SAME opportunities.

I dont mind a nice european vacation, you are missing my point dude... Dont get me wrong, canada is a s**thole especially this time of the year.

I was referring to the logistical disadvantages of getting surgery done outside my native country, such as priority in medical care recieved, possibility of missing details due to the language/ culture barrier etc.

It is suffice to say as a foreignor I will be second class compared to any citizen not to mention I do not even speak spanish well enough to understand anything regarding the surgery.

[kavan]

I dont mind a nice european vacation, you are missing my point dude... Dont get me wrong, canada is a s**thole especially this time of the year.

I was referring to the logistical disadvantages of getting surgery done outside my native country, such as priority in medical care recieved, possibility of missing details due to the language/ culture barrier etc.

It is suffice to say as a foreignor I will be second class compared to any citizen not to mention I do not even speak spanish well enough to understand anything regarding the surgery.

On second thought, just focus on the logistical ADVANTAGES of keeping the face you have and forgo the option to have the surgery.

You don't have to speak Spanish to keep the face you have. You don't have to worry about a cultural barrier to keep the face you have, be medically de-prioritized or anything else having to do with not being a citizen of Spain to keep the face you have.

There is NO RISK of any possible medical or cultural disadvantage in keeping your own face and deciding against the surgery.

0 risk solution to the problem.

I confess, I DON'T KNOW the logistical disadvantages to keeping the face you have vs the logistical disadvantages  of pursuing a surgery you cant get anywhere else.  Seems more logistically advantageous  to KEEP the face you have and just drop the prospect of having the surgery OR just find someone ELSE to engage on logistic disadvantages. I'm OUTTA HERE with this dilemma.