Beady small eyes.

[Austinou88]

What are my options with having beady close set eyes?

I'm trying to get in with a good Oculoplastic surgeon soon, and am wondering if much improvement is even possible with the orbital area?

http://imgur.com/a/eU2Nqpr

[kavan]

Surgery will not make your eye to eye distance wider.

[Lazlo]

What are my options with having beady close set eyes?

I'm trying to get in with a good Oculoplastic surgeon soon, and am wondering if much improvement is even possible with the orbital area?

http://imgur.com/a/eU2Nqpr

you'll have to see a couple surgeons. but first you need to make your eyes more wide set. for that you'll need an orbital box osteotomy to create wide set eyes.

only one who will do it is anthony s. wolfe in florida and i'd google him and get the ball rolling fast cause he'll probably retire in a year or so.

[Lazlo]

then only after that you can go to an oculoplastic surgeon to have the eye shape changed. but you're main problem right now is the eyes are too close set.

[Lestat]

Surgery will not make your eye to eye distance wider.

Of course it will!!

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=7106.msg64822#new

[Bobbit]

you'll have to see a couple surgeons. but first you need to make your eyes more wide set. for that you'll need an orbital box osteotomy to create wide set eyes.

only one who will do it is anthony s. wolfe in florida and i'd google him and get the ball rolling fast cause he'll probably retire in a year or so.

Lazlo, 

Do you think doing an orbital box osteotomy for a non syndrome patient who is probably, at worst, in the 10th to 20th percentile for that measure of eye distance - -  is going to be done any ethical surgeon ?

[kavan]

Of course it will!!

http://jawsurgeryforums.com/index.php?topic=7106.msg64822#new

...and this goes to Lazlo too....

Then let Wolfe DISCLOSE he does such surgeries for non syndromatic patients. Do you have any information as to a non syndrome patient such as the OP having this surgery by Wolfe where Wolfe would admit/disclose he does so and would do so for such a patient?

IMO, a doctor who would do so for a non syndrome patient would do so on the condition would NOT disclose he/she had such a surgery and certainly be unlikely to disclose such on a public forum and for reasons, it could be considered unethical.

Unless you can find a NON syndrome member on here who would be willing to disclose they had this done (and post photos), who would NOT be PRECLUDED by Wolfe for such a disclosure, please refrain from further encouraging the pursuit of this procedure.

Have either you or Lazlo  had this surgery by Wolfe or is this more of matter of sending someone ELSE off as a guinea pig to do it for the purpose of 'finding out' if it works out?

[kavan]

Lazlo, 

Do you think doing an orbital box osteotomy for a non syndrome patient who is probably, at worst, in the 10th to 20th percentile for that measure of eye distance - -  is going to be done any ethical surgeon ?

It would most likely be done by a surgeon who would PRECLUDE (non disclosure agreement) the patient disclosing he had it. That would be so because peers would consider it ethically questionable for a non syndrome patient.

It's looking that the OP is being ENCOURAGED by both Lazlo and Lestat to pursue this, perhaps so both can gain more info by having someone ELSE do it. However, IF the OP did it via encouragement by both of them, in particular the encouragement to 'report back' to them, the OP would be precluded via a non disclosure agreement from doing so, would be a violation of contract and the OP could be sued by the doctor if he passed info about it to either of them or anyone else.

I have NO REASON to think the doctor would like to be KNOWN for performing this procedure on non syndrome patients.

[Lazlo]

The ethical question is a non starter.

All depends on the doctor.

There is ONLY ONE WAY TO IMPROVE CLOSE SET EYES which are indeed a real problem for aesthetics.

ORBITAL BOX OSTEOTOMY.

I'm not encouraging anyone to get it. I'm only saying if its a problem you want to address here's a doctor who will do it. And you're wasting your time and money with anything else. I'm only encouraging people to consult with the doctor in question and find out what they want to know. If they feel its safe and will produce the results they want then they have to make that decision.

People like Earl, Plosko, and I would include myself are doing this board a service by sharing our experiences and knowledge of doctors we've heard about or consulted with.

I'm the first person to tell people to NOT DO SOMETHING based on my research and even things I've submitted myself to.

DON'T GET EXTRACTIONS. (I've had this done and am permanently ruined cause of it)

DON"T GET BUCCAL FAT REMOVAL AT ANY COST. (I've had it done and am permanently scarred from it)

DON"T GET A LIP LIFT.  (Don't a ton of research will always leave a terrible gash-like scar no matter what any doctor says).

And I and other have submitted ourselves as guinea pigs to all sorts of docs and have shared our good or bad experiences here.

OP you have close set eyes. Only doc I've heard who will fix that is Wolfe. Get a consult with him and find out what the deal is. And then share it here cause you'll be helping others like you. I don't need that procedure but others do.

End of story.

[kavan]

The ethical question is a non starter.

All depends on the doctor.

There is ONLY ONE WAY TO IMPROVE CLOSE SET EYES which are indeed a real problem for aesthetics.

ORBITAL BOX OSTEOTOMY.

I'm not encouraging anyone to get it. I'm only saying if its a problem you want to address here's a doctor who will do it. And you're wasting your time and money with anything else. I'm only encouraging people to consult with the doctor in question and find out what they want to know. If they feel its safe and will produce the results they want then they have to make that decision.

People like Earl, Plosko, and I would include myself are doing this board a service by sharing our experiences and knowledge of doctors we've heard about or consulted with.

I'm the first person to tell people to NOT DO SOMETHING based on my research and even things I've submitted myself to.

DON'T GET EXTRACTIONS. (I've had this done and am permanently ruined cause of it)

DON"T GET BUCCAL FAT REMOVAL AT ANY COST. (I've had it done and am permanently scarred from it)

DON"T GET A LIP LIFT.  (Don't a ton of research will always leave a terrible gash-like scar no matter what any doctor says).

And I and other have submitted ourselves as guinea pigs to all sorts of docs and have shared our good or bad experiences here.

OP you have close set eyes. Only doc I've heard who will fix that is Wolfe. Get a consult with him and find out what the deal is. And then share it here cause you'll be helping others like you. I don't need that procedure but others do.

End of story.

You were encouraging him to pursue it. I guess the OP can do what he wants to his face. But if he does, he doesn't owe anyone here any details. He can keep it secret. Just like any doc offering to him would want it to be.

[Lazlo]

From what I've seen Dr. Wolfe does not issue gag orders or keep it secret that he does any of these procedures.

From someone who had a consult with him I have heard he said: "I don't need a neurosurgeon, neurosurgeons come to me for advice. I've done this procedure many, many times and the risks are very low."

So I'm just saying, he's a guy who does it and he doesn't use a neurosurgeon which would make the cost much more affordable I thnk.

And yes, if you want to widen your eye distance you need to get this procedure. DO IT!!!! (just kidding) I mean research it, get a consult, ask about risks and then see if it would work out for you. IF it does and you want to help others on this forum out, tell us about your consult. The advantage there is you can crowdsource further about what the doctor says and get more opinions before you jump into anything potentially not that great for you.

[Bobbit]

It would most likely be done by a surgeon who would PRECLUDE (non disclosure agreement) the patient disclosing he had it. That would be so because peers would consider it ethically questionable for a non syndrome patient.

It's looking that the OP is being ENCOURAGED by both Lazlo and Lestat to pursue this, perhaps so both can gain more info by having someone ELSE do it. However, IF the OP did it via encouragement by both of them, in particular the encouragement to 'report back' to them, the OP would be precluded via a non disclosure agreement from doing so, would be a violation of contract and the OP could be sued by the doctor if he passed info about it to either of them or anyone else.

I have NO REASON to think the doctor would like to be KNOWN for performing this procedure on non syndrome patients.

I have run this (and variations) of this same question past three world class craniofacial surgeons, including two who, each, at different times, also directly trained under Tessier in the 1970s and 1980s (as did Dr. Wolf ).   

 Kavan,  you have this exactly "right." 

PS.  Also,  I doubt it would even be ethical for a surgeon to ask a patient to agree to not disclose who did the patient's  surgeries.

[Lazlo]

I have run this (and variations) of this same question past three world class craniofacial surgeons, including two who, each, at different times, also directly trained under Tessier in the 1970s and 1980s (as did Dr. Wolf ).   

 Kavan,  you have this exactly "right." 

PS.  Also,  I doubt it would even be ethical for a surgeon to ask a patient to agree to not disclose who did the patient's  surgeries.

Oh yeah doctor's can totally ask for non-disclosure agreements. Also, I don't think there's anything unethical about this.

From what I've learned the docs who can do this say the risks are superminimal. I know Sinn says there is very little risk. So there you go.

[cjQ]

DON'T GET EXTRACTIONS. (I've had this done and am permanently ruined cause of it)

End of story.

What kind of extractions do you mean? teeth?

[beyondconfusedtbh]

...and this goes to Lazlo too....

Then let Wolfe DISCLOSE he does such surgeries for non syndromatic patients. Do you have any information as to a non syndrome patient such as the OP having this surgery by Wolfe where Wolfe would admit/disclose he does so and would do so for such a patient?

IMO, a doctor who would do so for a non syndrome patient would do so on the condition would NOT disclose he/she had such a surgery and certainly be unlikely to disclose such on a public forum and for reasons, it could be considered unethical.

Unless you can find a NON syndrome member on here who would be willing to disclose they had this done (and post photos), who would NOT be PRECLUDED by Wolfe for such a disclosure, please refrain from further encouraging the pursuit of this procedure.

Have either you or Lazlo  had this surgery by Wolfe or is this more of matter of sending someone ELSE off as a guinea pig to do it for the purpose of 'finding out' if it works out?

Just contact the surgeon(s) mentioned. Most likely they'll say no to performing a box osteotomy.

If they say yes & they make you sign a non-disclosure agreement then think about what the implications are. Do you trust someone who doesn't trust themselves?

If they don't make you sign a non-disclosure agreement (& provided you've read the appropriate scientific literature & perhaps take some initiative to ask REAL surgeons with experience about the risks, complications etc) then go from there. It's not like you'll be able to afford it straight off the bat anyway.

I know nothing about the matter but BE CAREFUL. I'm only basing this off of how the surgery looks & the areas in question, but this doesn't seem like something that should be taken lightly. I'd advise against it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4154976/

https://deschamps-braly.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Hypertelorism_Correction___What_Happens_with.28.pdf

See for yourself.