The CAUSE of underdeveloped jaws

[ODog]

ODog,

What meat eating paradise did your ancestors come from?

Please don’t be condescending. This is a serious discussion. They grew up on farms. They ate animals and animal products and not much else.

[PloskoPlus]

Please don’t be condescending. This is a serious discussion. They grew up on farms. They ate animals and animal products and not much else.

I'm not. I'm genuinely curious, because until very recent times 99% of farmers ate plant food 99% of the time and meat only on special occasions.

[babyjaw206]

You can blame the birth control pill for that. I wouldn’t place too much faith In That hypothesis.

If a square jaw at least subconsciously signals a man who is physically fit/strong, then I think there is an argument to be made that as physical strength becomes less important in evaluating a man’s attractiveness as a mate, women will gravitate more toward men with softer features. I think of my close group of female friends from college, most of them ended up marrying nice, smart guys who went on to make a lot of money, not necessarily traditionally handsome guys.

On the birth control thing, I know there have been studies indicating a link beteeen a woman being on hormonal birth control and her mate selection, but I’d be interested in seeing data around what percentage of women are already on the pill when they meet the father of their children. Among the women I know it’s pretty split. When I met my husband I wasn’t on the pill and he’s the strong-jawed type, but I also consciously was going for that having a weak jaw myself.

[ODog]

I'm not. I'm genuinely curious, because until very recent times 99% of farmers ate plant food 99% of the time and meat only on special occasions.

Where are you getting this information from? You’re telling me a farmer working 12 hour days in the sun ate plants “99%” of the time? Then where are they getting the energy to perform their tasks? Plants don’t have fat or carbs, or protein for that matter. Are you saying they subsisted on fruits?

[Dogmatix]

Plants don’t have fat or carbs, or protein for that matter.

uhm?
I haven't followed the discussion, is this a rethorical point, or do you really mean this?

[ODog]

uhm?
I haven't followed the discussion, is this a rethorical point, or do you really mean this?

What don’t you understand ? There is little energy content in plants. There is ample energy (fat) and body building material (protein) in meat. Yes there are plenty carbs in roots and tubers, but then where is the protein which is the most important macronutrient, especially for the purposes of our discussion, I.e the construction of jaw bones.

[PloskoPlus]

Where are you getting this information from? You’re telling me a farmer working 12 hour days in the sun ate plants “99%” of the time? Then where are they getting the energy to perform their tasks? Plants don’t have fat or carbs, or protein for that matter. Are you saying they subsisted on fruits?

Rice farmers ate mainly rice. Wheat farmers ate mainly wheat. Meat was consumed only on special occasions.

[ODog]

Rice farmers ate mainly rice. Wheat farmers ate mainly wheat. Meat was consumed only on special occasions.

Well my ancestor farmers ate meat at least once a day. I don’t see how ones body could manufacture testosterone and sperm production without cholesterol and fat on an all-rice diet. Maybe they ate just enough meat to keep themselves fertile ? Regardless, rice and bread are not nearly AS BAD as the junk we have available today. The junk we eat today is effectively not even food and it’s this that poisons our germ cells, like every other cell in our body, just like any toxin does. Even meat once a week is okay if you’re not eating posion the rest of the time. It’s sort of like... you can eat meats and veggies daily in ample qualities but if you smoke cigarettes, your sperm can still be affected and distorted.

So I think you’re right. Most people were not elites and so obviously didn’t have first dibs to meat. Which might explain why the elites in society have typically always been more attractive people than societies bottom dwellers all throughout history. BUT... less meat is still okay if you’re not injesting material that is throwing your body’s physiology completely out of whack. We are somewhat adapted to plant foods, although not as much as people like to claim since our digestive tracts are more like wolves than chimps, but we are NOT designed to eat sugar or trans fats, for example, as evidenced by our body using sugar as Fuel immediately when it’s injested so that It can purge itself of the toxic substance quickly. So perhaps it’s more the addition of bad foods thats the problem.

[ODog]

But look... there’s an easier way to test the nutrition theory. I said it in my first post and nobody’s commented on it.. Look at families with multiple siblings. Is it not the case that the first born seems to be healthier, bigger, stronger, more vigorous and beautiful ? And the subsequent born children seem to be less and less healthy looking? (The jaws are only but one manifestation of this phenomenon). I can think of dozens of cases where this is true and only one where it’s not. The idea is that the mother’s nutritional stores are at their peak for the first pregnancy, and it takes about 4 years to replenish those stores. The problem is that most people tend to like having children 2 years apart which is not enough time to have a second optimally healthy child.

I’ve seen this scenario too many times for it not to be true.

[ODog]

Cate Shanahan calls this second sibling syndrome, have a read:

https://drcate.com/kate-middleton-versus-pippa-who-is-the-more-beautiful-sister/

http://drcate.com/celebrity-album/

[Dogmatix]

What don’t you understand ? There is little energy content in plants. There is ample energy (fat) and body building material (protein) in meat. Yes there are plenty carbs in roots and tubers, but then where is the protein which is the most important macronutrient, especially for the purposes of our discussion, I.e the construction of jaw bones.

There are plenty of plant based alternatives for protein, fat and especially carbs.

Protein
https://goo.gl/images/x8riXV

For fat you have
Avocado
Nuts
Olives etc

Carbs is everywhere

Based on this I don't understand the part I quoted. You can have a balanced diet without meat.

[ODog]

Not to turn this into a discussion of nutrition unrelated to the topic at hand but my friend... 1 cup of broccoli/ kale 3 grams protein, 6 grams of carbs... 1 piece of steak 65 G protein and 50 g fat.... which food do you think our starving, energy-deprived ancestors valued most? Which do you think they made the staple of their diet and which a mere supplementary element ? I don’t recall any prehistoric cave drawings of broccoli tbh.

See, the reason we can’t even have a discussion about how diet contributes to maldevelopment is because our society is so brainwashed about what an optimal diet is. Lol.... getting your protein from beans smh... I don’t even want to get into how nuts and seeds and many vegetables can actually be bad for you for you  since plants produce toxins as an evolutionary survival mechanism.

[ODog]

There are plenty of plant based alternatives for protein, fat and especially carbs.

Protein
https://goo.gl/images/x8riXV

For fat you have
Avocado
Nuts
Olives etc

Carbs is everywhere

Based on this I don't understand the part I quoted. You can have a balanced diet without meat.

No, you just haven’t studied nutrition deeply enough. And surviving is not the same as being an optimally healthy male/ female

[PloskoPlus]

Vegans have kids somehow.

[Dogmatix]

No, you just haven’t studied nutrition deeply enough. And surviving is not the same as being an optimally healthy male/ female

Impossible to have a discussion at this level. Those statements needs to be backed up. You stated that plant based diet doesn't contain protein, fat or carbs, which of course is nonsense. So you  need to specify what you mean.