Author Topic: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?  (Read 7609 times)

ben from UK

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How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« on: December 10, 2018, 10:04:23 PM »
The surgeon that did the chinwing miscalculated the whole thing. As i had a silicone chin implant with sides, that already was underneath my natural chin border, that needed to be shaved down a little bit, he did a chinwing, dropping down the chin and jaw area, without additional ahaving of implant, making me have a long face now, that looks off/very unbalanced. Also, it didn't really address a lack of angularity/width at the jawangle.

I'm 4.5 months post op, everything seems okay (except for the aestethic results of course), and the swelling settled down completely. No complications so far, no problems with numbness.   

I sheduled a surgery end of january, which will be 5.5 months post op, to do a small jaw peek implant and replace the silicone implant with peek. 

Is it okay to do it 5.5 months after chinwing? I read somewhere that 5-6 months later could be okay, as the bone would be strong enough.

« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 11:00:57 PM by ben from UK »

ben from UK

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2018, 07:44:24 AM »
According to the assistent of the surgeons i consulted, there was a piece of bone placed ON TOP of the jawline? What kind of surgery is this? This isn't a chinwing. How bizar is this? I have a consultation tomorrow about this with the surgeon. I never heard of this before.

ghiggson90

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 08:00:30 PM »
Considering surgeons frequently perform revision jaw surgeries as early as 6 months post-op, 6 months is likely enough time for your procedure.

ben from UK

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2018, 10:07:07 AM »
Results of ''chinwing'' after latest consultation with new surgeon, and after he analyzed the ct scans:

- chin was placed 4mm backwards (very very strange, i didn't asked for a setback of the chin. Why would i want a setback?)
- chin was lengthened (didn't asked for that, wasn't part of the plan), making my face having a longface
- hipbone was placed on top of the jaw angle, which didn't create any subtle angle, just made my face wider without form. Total lack of subtility and wasn't discussed pre operation.
- big pieces of bone were seen within the masseter on both sides (surgeon didn't understand why that was the case)
- chin implant wasn't shaved down, as was discussed prior to the surgery
- Jaw at right side placed lower than left side, making my face more asymmetric. Very strange decision.

Surgeon did a disastrous job. The plan to fix it is extensive and difficult to execute, but fortunately it probably can be done soon. I addressed the problems with the surgeon who did it, but he doesn't want to take any responsability. His lack of experience, the fact he needed/wanted the money and probably didn't deal with a case like this before (despite the fact he said he did), no good plan, a poor execution and just an overall deceptive and manipulating character, lead to him making big mistakes and miscalculations. I lost 5 very stressful months of my life with this charlatan.



Dogmatix

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2018, 10:12:32 AM »
Who is this surgeon and how did you find him? Seems like a good idea protecting others from this and hope everything works out for you. Unfortunately don't have much to say to help with your questions.

ben from UK

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2018, 11:16:12 AM »
Dr. Brusco.

Immediately after the surgery, I knew something was wrong, by the way he was speaking and by the fact he said he didn't shave down the implant (which was needed, cause sometimes it's a bout one or two mm's). True, sometimes you just panic because of the swelling, but it turned out my intuition was right in the end.

I admit I wasn't an easy case due to previous surgeries, but it wasn't as difficult as he made it now. Besides this, he lied about too many things, tried to hide information, didn't stick to the plan and overall gave a strange vibe. Of course, there could be technical issues during surgery, but I wasn't informed prior to the surgery about the things he has done. He also said he was going to shave down the implant 100% prior to the surgery. He didn't do that and never told me there could be a chance of him not being able to do it due to technical reasons. I could have changed my mind prior to the surgery if I had full information.

I feel completely mislead. When I went for control and to take the stitches out, he was acting all nervous, began to speak very fast. I asked him important questions, he cut me off many times, saying things like 'why do you ask those question, trust me, trust me, why don't you trust me'. I traveled by plane, spend alot of money to stay in expensive hotels and after just 15 or 20 minutes he said 'you see, I'm here so long answering your questions, while I have other patients waiting (I never saw any patient in the waiting room when I went to see him 3 or 4 times, neither that day, totally empty).

When I addressed my concerns the first time by mail, based on my consultation with another surgeon, he wanted to get out as soon as possible and said: 'you obviously trust other surgeons more than me, I cannot help you any longer'. The overall aftercare was extremely bad. But most of all, he just very poorly executed a messy plan. Neither of the surgeons I consulted afterwards understood what the hell he had done and why he did it this way (but of course, they don't want to discredit another surgeon, so they were not too explicit and personal towards him).

A story always has to sides, he probably has some good results as well (someone who's satisfied will give you another story), but I wouldn't recommend him based on the fact that he's a dishonest person, lacks experience, won't help if you have problems, doesn't take responsibility and just doesn't explain anything afterwards, especially when he fcks up. I had to figure out myself what he had done and was shocked to know that it was such a messy amateurish job. Maybe he has some skiss.s, but he's not subtle enough, especially in more complex cases. When someone says 'a couple of mm's difference doesn't matter', keep away from a surgeon like that. It's all about a couple of mm's less or more, unless you already look like a supermodel. Very experienced and more subtle surgeons know this.

Also, he just began working for himself (his teacher Triaca doesn't want anything to do with him anymore, cause he felt betrayed by him, another sign that he's considered dishonest, even by his colleagues). He needs to build up his name and gather money, and he wants to do it quickly, that's the impression I have of him. Not a very solid base, especially when you deal with such a complex procedure. He needed and wanted the money so badly, that he was willing to risk messing up things, hide information, and probably doing things he never done, instead of fully inform me. That's what this story is about.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 11:34:29 AM by ben from UK »

kavan

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2018, 01:16:45 PM »
From on of his PROMO videos; https://vimeo.com/194001968?from=outro-embed

at time= 1:00 in the video

"We guarantee an impeccable experience in the desired quality."

Now, I don't know about the laws in Switzerland about REFUNDS when someone GUARANTEES a product or service. But his promo video does claim to guarantee satisfaction. In the US, a statement like that could get a doctor in trouble with the Attorney General and Federal Trade Commission. So, you might have to find the equivalent of those agencies in either your country, his or both.

Now, I don't know anything about malpractice laws in Switzerland either. But in US there is a protocol a doctor must follow when he wants to END the patient/doctor relationship. I think it starts with the doctor writing a formal letter explaining WHY he is ending the relationship. If it's something the patient did 'wrong' (behavior issues), I think that has to be clarified in the letter. In general, in US, 'ABANDONMENT' can be cause for a malpractice law suit.

You say that this doctor told you he could not help you anymore BECAUSE you 'trusted other doctors' (more than him). Refusal to help you anymore could be abandonment (I think) IF all you were doing was trying to discuss with him what they observed on your X rays (or what ever technical data they looked at). However, it wouldn't be abandonment if one of those doctors did surgery on you, made the situation worse and THEN he refused to help.

If the other doctors you consulted with were ALSO experts in the chin wing procedure and he dropped you because you brought their findings to the discussion table in the act of seeking HELP from the doctor who did your surgery or you were using their findings to ask why your doctor did what he did, that could be abandonment.

Basically abandonment is when the doctor ends the patient/doctor relationship without formally telling you why (in an official letter). If he didn't sent you an official letter saying WHY he wants to end the patient/doctor relationship, (this assumes he ended doctor/patient contact with you) you could have a case against him.

I'm NOT a lawyer and all depends on the facts and circumstances as they would apply to whether or not the countries in question had laws pertaining to patient abandonment. Just saying it's something you could explore further with a lawyer.

His open statement on his video where he 'GUARANTEES an impeccable experience in the desired quality' could also work against him if instead of his making things good for you, he abandons you for 'desiring the quality' he guaranteed you would have by becoming his patient.

That said, find the branches of government that deal with doctors guaranteeing their work in open promotional communications and/or branches of law having to do with patient abandonment.



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Reality

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2018, 01:25:34 PM »
Who is this surgeon and how did you find him? Seems like a good idea protecting others from this and hope everything works out for you. Unfortunately don't have much to say to help with your questions.

^^ THIS -dropped Karma on Dogmatix & of course, ben from UK


@ben from UK: Can confirm charlatan status of "Dr." B -I axed this individual from my list not too long ago. If others would like more details, they can pm me regarding my exchange with him. I would urge others to execute caution.

kavan

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2018, 02:03:32 PM »
^^ THIS -dropped Karma on Dogmatix & of course, ben from UK


@ben from UK: Can confirm charlatan status of "Dr." B -I axed this individual from my list not too long ago. If others would like more details, they can pm me regarding my exchange with him. I would urge others to execute caution.


And my karma went down one point immediately after you announced your karma votes. What a coincidence.

Here I basically took the time to find issues with the doctor (open promo 'guarantees' and possible abandonment) which I hoped would be helpful to the OP.

Reminder to self: Better to say nothing than to spend time try to openly help someone.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Reality

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 02:12:38 PM »

And my karma went down one point immediately after you announced your karma votes. What a coincidence.

Here I basically took the time to find issues with the doctor (open promo 'guarantees' and possible abandonment) which I hoped would be helpful to the OP.

Reminder to self: Better to say nothing than to spend time try to openly help someone.

@Kavan
Are you kidding me?!...  I did no such thing and have no reason to. I've never lowered anyone's karma on this board!
Don't make blatant accusations about me or anyone else here, not cool.
Others and myself value all of your contributions to this forum which are massive.
I gave you shout outs, quoted you and raised your karma multiple times on this board -That's a fact.

ben from UK

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 02:23:36 PM »

And my karma went down one point immediately after you announced your karma votes. What a coincidence.

Here I basically took the time to find issues with the doctor (open promo 'guarantees' and possible abandonment) which I hoped would be helpful to the OP.

Reminder to self: Better to say nothing than to spend time try to openly help someone.

No man, don't be offended by some futile things. Your post is very valuable. I will take into consideration and read it a couple of times. Two surgeons from the same field have pinpointed the mistakes that were made, on paper (not completely, but i could get it fully on paper). It's not about just one mistake, almost everything he has done was completely off track with the execution. I mean, what the hell is putting bone on bone to create some artificial jaw angle? That's not even a chinwing. Also, he did things that were never discussed and planned, nor did he inform me about it before and after the surgery. I never asked for putting hipbone on bone, never asked for lengthening the chin, and I asked for shaving the implant, which was promised but not done. Also, the bone in the masseter muscle on both sides is just... unbelievable. The surgeons I consulted did not understand it and were very surprised of course. Then you have a 4 mm setback of the chin (extremely bizar, why would anyone do that unless you have underbite or something like that?). I need an additional sliding genio now. The whole thing looks like cut and paste in an extremely amateurish way.

He brought me in deep, deep problems, and the emotional distress and insecurity is enormous. I need to do an expensive new surgery, and it's going to be very difficult to bring everything back in proportion.


Quote
@ben from UK: Can confirm charlatan status of "Dr." B -I axed this individual from my list not too long ago. If others would like more details, they can pm me regarding my exchange with him. I would urge others to execute caution.

Glad to hear I'm not imagening things. I was doubting about my own judgement, but it turns out this guy is truly a charlatan. I will ask for a full refund and if he doesn't give me a full refund, I will keep exposing him online on other boards. I will also write a negative review about him in the review section to warn other people. This man is probably very dangerous. Keep away from him.

kavan

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 02:47:06 PM »
@Kavan
Are you kidding me?!...  I did no such thing and have no reason to. I've never lowered anyone's karma on this board!
Don't make blatant accusations about me or anyone else here, not cool.
Others and myself value all of your contributions to this forum which are massive.
I gave you shout outs, quoted you and raised your karma multiple times on this board -That's a fact.

I didn't make a blatant accusation. It's probably a weird coincidence.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

kavan

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 03:02:57 PM »
If you found the guy through his PROMO where the video says:

"We guarantee an impeccable experience in the desired quality."

I think you might have cause to report him to what ever gov agency deals with doctors advertising with such guarantees as (false) come-ons.

No man, don't be offended by some futile things. Your post is very valuable. I will take into consideration and read it a couple of times. Two surgeons from the same field have pinpointed the mistakes that were made, on paper (not completely, but i could get it fully on paper). It's not about just one mistake, almost everything he has done was completely off track with the execution. I mean, what the hell is putting bone on bone to create some artificial jaw angle? That's not even a chinwing. Also, he did things that were never discussed and planned, nor did he inform me about it before and after the surgery. I never asked for putting hipbone on bone, never asked for lengthening the chin, and I asked for shaving the implant, which was promised but not done. Also, the bone in the masseter muscle on both sides is just... unbelievable. The surgeons I consulted did not understand it and were very surprised of course. Then you have a 4 mm setback of the chin (extremely bizar, why would anyone do that unless you have underbite or something like that?). I need an additional sliding genio now. The whole thing looks like cut and paste in an extremely amateurish way.

He brought me in deep, deep problems, and the emotional distress and insecurity is enormous. I need to do an expensive new surgery, and it's going to be very difficult to bring everything back in proportion.


Glad to hear I'm not imagening things. I was doubting about my own judgement, but it turns out this guy is truly a charlatan. I will ask for a full refund and if he doesn't give me a full refund, I will keep exposing him online on other boards. I will also write a negative review about him in the review section to warn other people. This man is probably very dangerous. Keep away from him.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Dogmatix

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 03:17:31 PM »
If you found the guy through his PROMO where the video says:

"We guarantee an impeccable experience in the desired quality."

I think you might have cause to report him to what ever gov agency deals with doctors advertising with such guarantees as (false) come-ons.

I think that's a hard case in europe, what I remember from previous threads there was also discussions regarding a revision from the surgery. So if the surgeon is offering a revision (don't know if that's the actual case), I think he's off the hook since he's offering to work with it until satisfaction.

ben from UK

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Re: How long to wait to do implants after chinwing?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 03:23:41 PM »
If you found the guy through his PROMO where the video says:

"We guarantee an impeccable experience in the desired quality."

I think you might have cause to report him to what ever gov agency deals with doctors advertising with such guarantees as (false) come-ons.

And what about:

1) He did not execute what was planned and promised. He did things i haven't asked for, and things that clearly are disadvantageous aestethically, like bringing back the chin 4 mm. I lost the projection I had build with the chin implant, having a retruded chin again.
2) The surgeons I consulted confirmed based on ct scan that there were very weird things, like 'floating big pieces of bone within the masseter (we still don't know why, and these surgeons, with all their experience, still don't understand). They also didn't understand lowering the jaw so much at the right side compared to the left side, nor did they understand the 4mm setback of the chin, nor the cut and paste of pieces of bone. You can't build angularity by sticking a piece of bone at the jawangles during surgery. Also, you need to carefully plan this with a design/model, for example with peeks or medpor. I also never heard of sticking pieces of bone at jawangles, neither on this board. Sounds extremely weird to me.

Whole thing on the ct and reality looks like as if a child builds a house from carbon or sticks: looks very messy/sloppy, very unprofessional, someone who clearly doesn't have a clue what he was doing/doesn't have the experience/level of skil.ls to perform this.

The plan to fix it is extensive:

- Shaving off the bone pieces at jawangles; putting peek jaw angle
- Bringing forward chin with genio
- Change silicone chin implant wit peek (another thing is that Brusco probably just cut off the silicone implant in two pieces, horizontally. It has no support now, cause it's not fixated, screw is off).
- Fixate retracted masseter on lower boarder of the jaw
- Bringing back up right jaw line (probably by shaving)






 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 03:33:27 PM by ben from UK »