Jaw Center in Los Angeles

[kavan]

Well unfortunately I still wasn't able to change the mind of my Navy doctor or anyone else I tried speaking too. They still insist the military facility has full capability of doing the surgery, and they won't make any changes.

However, I got in contact with Barry Martin and he actually spoke to me directly. He told me to give him a week and he would find out from one of his friends at Walter Reed who's good. He said most of the guys he knew over there already retired.


I also asked him about the West Coast, since I'm stationed out here and if he knew of somebody good that would be great. What do you think? Stick it out for Relle in the mean time, while I wait to hear back from Barry Martin?

I would just wait to hear from Barry Martin  because he's a military contact who might come up with a lead of who's good within what your military insurance will pay for.

[Austinou88]

Why are you stuck with the navy? Can't you just screw them and find your own doctor and have it done? Or is it a quest to have the navy to pay for a private surgeon? In that case I think it's hard. Medically they can probably resolve your issues, but maybe not in the aesthetic way you prefer, but that's not their priority when giving away a surgery for free.

Reason I am stuck is because TRICARE Prime is mandatory for Active Duty Service Members.

TRICARE Prime is basically a military HMO, which means you can't just call a specialist and make an appointment, you need a referral from a primary care manager.
Which is literally impossible to get if there is a military facility out there in your state "that is capable of doing the treatment". The plan cannot be changed and you
cannot use any other health insurance, unless you're married, have a dependent, or live in the middle of nowhere far away off base.

I am starting to regret not getting this done before the military, although I probably wouldn't have gotten past MEPS if I had.

[Austinou88]

I would just wait to hear from Barry Martin  because he's a military contact who might come up with a lead of who's good within what your military insurance will pay for.

I actually was able to speak with Barry Martin over the phone directly.
He told me to give him a week, since all the guys he knew had retired.

He said he will ask one of his friends up at the Plastic Surgery Department at Reed to give him the skinny on who's good.
I also asked him if he knew anyone on the West-Coast, and he said he would try and find out for me. Hoping to hear back some good news!

[kavan]

I actually was able to speak with Barry Martin over the phone directly.
He told me to give him a week, since all the guys he knew had retired.

He said he will ask one of his friends up at the Plastic Surgery Department at Reed to give him the skinny on who's good.
I also asked him if he knew anyone on the West-Coast, and he said he would try and find out for me. Hoping to hear back some good news!

Did you mention that a patient who had him MANY years ago when he was a RESIDENT predicted he would be a good PS.

[Austinou88]

Also, I called McLaughlins office (the orthodontist arnett & gunson use) and asked if they knew of any good military OMFS's. The lady said
they have never had a patient that was getting surgery from a military OMFS. So I asked if her if she knew any OMFS's that might possibly have
some type of in-house payment plan available (which I highly doubted but figured what the hell).

She told me that I should call the insurance coordinator over at Grant McGann’s office, because she might be able to help me with something.
So I did, and of course there wasn't anything she could really do for me. Then she told me she had forgotten, but she remembered that the supplier they
use for there metal platings in surgery, also supplies a lot of the military facilities as well. She said he's a really good friend of hers, and is in the
operating room a lot, getting to see most of the surgeons he supplies, work first hand. So she asked him for me, and he gave her a name.

His name is Drew Havard: https://imgur.com/a/P8FNAlz
                                      https://www.joms.org/article/S0278-2391(16)00109-9/pdf
                                      https://www.med.navy.mil/sites/nmcsd/DocsGME/Dental/NMCSD-Dental-CE_CourseBrochure_FY2018.pdf

So I called and asked for my appointment to be with him.
He is one of the main surgeons at the military facility, and not a resident.

I also called Larry Wolfords office, since he worked on a piece of publishing with him (link above), and the lady at Wolfords office said she remembered him.
She didn't know much about him, besides that he trained under wolford for a month, and had a practice nearby them. He apparently travels
from TX to San Diego to do surgerys.

[Austinou88]

Did you mention that a patient who had him MANY years ago when he was a RESIDENT predicted he would be a good PS.

Yup, sure did.

[Austinou88]

Also, I had an idea about something as well. The OMFS Department at the Military Facility wants you to bring in the paperwork from the consult with
the Orthodontist, so they can see what they're thinking. I already have a consult next week with both of the Orthodontist Arnett & Gunson use, and was
going to bring in the paperwork I get from both Ortho's.

So I was thinking, why not also get paperwork to bring in from consults with 2 or 3 of the best of the best OMFS's? Or at least from
Arnett & Gunson and Larry Wolford, who is the OMFS Drew havard did some residency under. Not sure if this is a good or bad
idea, but I thought it might increase my treatment outcome beneficially.

[kavan]

Well there has to be some good maxfax guys in the military. Maybe that guy is good.  A lot of the field of maxfax and plastic surgery had it's boom (no pun intended) during the WORLD WARS with the military doctors.

[Austinou88]

Well there has to be some good maxfax guys in the military. Maybe that guy is good.  A lot of the field of maxfax and plastic surgery had it's boom (no pun intended) during the WORLD WARS with the military doctors.

Yeah, at least the main surgeons you would expect. I'm so concerned about asthetics. How could I express that to the doc without giving it away that that's the only reason I'm interested in the treatment.

Also, what do you think of my idea? Would it be insulting to do.

[kavan]

not insulting.

[Dogmatix]

Reason I am stuck is because TRICARE Prime is mandatory for Active Duty Service Members.

TRICARE Prime is basically a military HMO, which means you can't just call a specialist and make an appointment, you need a referral from a primary care manager.
Which is literally impossible to get if there is a military facility out there in your state "that is capable of doing the treatment". The plan cannot be changed and you
cannot use any other health insurance, unless you're married, have a dependent, or live in the middle of nowhere far away off base.

I am starting to regret not getting this done before the military, although I probably wouldn't have gotten past MEPS if I had.

It sounds really strange. Will they tie you down and perform the surgery, as it's mandatory? Will they put you in jail if you book an appointment with a private surgeon when you're off duty and have it done financed on your own without their knowledge? I understand that they can set the rules if they're gonna pay for it. But it sounds strange that they can stop you from just going off on your own.

[Austinou88]

No its not like that lol. They aren't forcing me to do anything. The surgery itself is considered elective by the military.
If you want it done though, there are only 2 ways the military will allow. Either have it done at the Military Facility
or have it done outside in the Civilian Sector and pay 100% out of pocket.

Unless by some miracle of God you can get a referral to In-Network
(which seems impossible, since I have spoken with every resource available and have gotten nowhere)

[Dogmatix]

No its not like that lol. They aren't forcing me to do anything. The surgery itself is considered elective by the military.

If you want it done though, there are only 2 ways the military will allow. Either have it done at the Military Facility or have it done outside in the Civilian Sector and pay 100% out of pocket.

Unless by some miracle of God you can get a referral to In-Network (which I have literally talked to every resource you can talk to on that type of thing and have gotten nowhere).

Ok, so you're not stuck with the military. I'm kind of in the same situation, and after a year or so I decided it was enough with the bulls**t and decided to start consulting privately instead. For me I wish I would've done that earlier instead of wasting my time trying to beat the system and if I would advice anyone, it would be to not waste time in losing battles and take control of the situation instead. Yes, it's expensive, but it also puts it in perspective if you only want it if someone else will pay for it.

[Austinou88]

Ok, so you're not stuck with the military. I'm kind of in the same situation, and after a year or so I decided it was enough with the bulls**t and decided to start consulting privately instead. For me I wish I would've done that earlier instead of wasting my time trying to beat the system and if I would advice anyone, it would be to not waste time in losing battles and take control of the situation instead. Yes, it's expensive, but it also puts it in perspective if you only want it if someone else will pay for it.

Well if you don't take money into account, then no.
Was your situation active duty, or just some strict civilian HMO insurance plan?

Sorry, I'm kind of confused. Are you suggesting paying out of pocket or something else?
If so, I'd be happy to hear where I could find a 40K loan. Because I haven't ever heard
of a financing for this type of expense, that's even mildly obtainable. 

I was given a good name of a surgeon from a reputable source, so I'll be going to consult with this Military
OMFS to check and see. I'm also waiting to hear back from Berry Martin, which hopefully I'll get a name.

[Dogmatix]

Sorry, I'm kind of confused. Are you suggesting paying out of pocket or something else?
If so, I'd be happy to hear where I could find a 40K loan. Because I haven't ever heard
of a financing for this type of expense, that's even mildly obtainable. 

Yes, that was what I was suggesting. I can of course not give financial advices on how to save for it or where to lend money. But just saying the obvious, the health care systems, or in your case the military is not doing this to offer you plastic surgery. If they offer you a surgery it's because they see a medical problem, which I'm sure they'll be able to fix. What you seem to be looking for is to maximize the aesthetic result. This is why you're having a conflict with your doctors. They are surely able to handle the medical aspects, but you want someone like Gunson to perform it, which is not gonna happen. Am I right that you're mainly doing this for aesthetic reasons, or what medical concerns do you have that you don't think they'll be able to handle for you?