Author Topic: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please  (Read 5449 times)

SavingFace

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 4
Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« on: January 23, 2019, 02:26:41 AM »

I hope it doesn’t violate any rules on the forum post this in a different general topic. If it does, I apologize. Let me know and I will delete it. I have a consultation with Dr. Sinn Sinn next week in Texas, and I was just trying to get some advice on what I might ask him about. I don’t know all of the procedures that might help me Midface hypoplasia. I’ve been interested in his box osteotomy for awhile. Haven’t been able to find any before and after pictures though, and I don’t know what other procedures I should be considering.

Here was my other post:

I have a consultation next week with Dr. Sinn in Texas. We were originally going to do a phone consultation, but I decided that there was no substitute for going in person and letting him take a look.  I’m just not sure what all to ask him. I don’t really know how to post a photograph on here, especially one that would not reveal my identity. But I would be happy to send photographs privately if anyone is qualified enough and some of the terminology and aspects of both jaw surgery and maxillary advancement to give advice. I would like for him to possibly consider his “box osteotomy” or other procedures that might help. I’m a novice so I hardly even know what to say to him.

I had a lower lid bleph and cheek implants in 2013 and they made my situation even worse, especially around the eyes. I have weak and “hollow” eyes and a very flat midface. Thanks to anyone who has any advice.

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2019, 12:55:32 PM »
I hope it doesn’t violate any rules on the forum post this in a different general topic. If it does, I apologize. Let me know and I will delete it. I have a consultation with Dr. Sinn Sinn next week in Texas, and I was just trying to get some advice on what I might ask him about. I don’t know all of the procedures that might help me Midface hypoplasia. I’ve been interested in his box osteotomy for awhile. Haven’t been able to find any before and after pictures though, and I don’t know what other procedures I should be considering.

Here was my other post:

I have a consultation next week with Dr. Sinn in Texas. We were originally going to do a phone consultation, but I decided that there was no substitute for going in person and letting him take a look.  I’m just not sure what all to ask him. I don’t really know how to post a photograph on here, especially one that would not reveal my identity. But I would be happy to send photographs privately if anyone is qualified enough and some of the terminology and aspects of both jaw surgery and maxillary advancement to give advice. I would like for him to possibly consider his “box osteotomy” or other procedures that might help. I’m a novice so I hardly even know what to say to him.

I had a lower lid bleph and cheek implants in 2013 and they made my situation even worse, especially around the eyes. I have weak and “hollow” eyes and a very flat midface. Thanks to anyone who has any advice.

To post a photo:

1: Hit 'Reply' and enter your post in the space for writing.

2: Look down under that space to see: 'ATTACHMENTS an other options'

3: Hit that.

4: You will see the word: 'ATTACH' and also 'CHOOSE FILE'

5: Hit; 'Choose file'. It will call up photo file selections from your computer.

6: choose your selected photo
-------

Photos ARE needed to show your problem if you want advice as to what to ask about your problem.

If you are a novice and don't understand much, yet alone what to ask him, I would not suggest asking for a box osteo. Why? Because you should be WELL RESEARCHED and enough so that you would know what to ask him and why for such a complex procedure.

If you are not, you must resolve your consultation to just telling him what bothers you about your face and ask his suggestions as to what he can do for you.

ETA: I deleted your duplicate post because the same post should not be in multiple places.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2019, 01:17:19 PM by kavan »
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

SavingFace

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 4
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2019, 09:16:19 PM »
 Thanks. I wanted to follow up on this. I went out for the consultation. It did not turn out quite as I expected. Dr Sinn recommended against orthognathic surgery because he thinks my profile is fine. I asked about the box osteotomy but he recommended against that because he said it would require operation in the hospital with a neurosurgeon present since the bone would have to be cut beyond the optic nerve. So basically he offered two options: one was an osteotomy moving the cheek bone (but not the orbital area) forward. I’m not sure what this is called but I’m attaching a picture of the model skull he had just performed the procedure on. He said I would get a good result from that but may get a better result from a custom implant, since it would address my orbital area and cheeks at the same time. That’s a little bit frustrating, because I already got a set of implants and they did nothing for my face, except perhaps make it worse. Also, I chose Dr. Sinn because I felt actually moving the bone was the best option. But he didn’t think so necessarily.

I’m thinking if I want to go with an implant, Dr. Yarumchuk may be a better option. Any thoughts?

Sorry, I tried several times to post a picture, and I even resized it below 500 K. This will not let me upload the picture. It even shows the name of the file, which has a JPEG extension, and that is one of the options listed for posting photos, but it still will not upload. I don’t know what’s wrong with this photo upload option.

apollo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: 9
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2019, 09:35:53 PM »
That’s a little bit frustrating, because I already got a set of implants and they did nothing for my face, except perhaps make it worse.

Not all implants are created equal. What kind of implant did you have? Was it custom? Was it with a well known doctor?

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2019, 12:07:01 PM »
photos please, kavan can you help this guy please?

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2019, 01:24:44 PM »
photos please, kavan can you help this guy please?

Lazlo,

Can you tell me if the directions I gave work if you follow them to attach some generic photo you have in your files.

The other option for photos is for the OP to put them onto IMGUR.
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2019, 02:31:37 PM »
Lazlo,

Can you tell me if the directions I gave work if you follow them to attach some generic photo you have in your files.

The other option for photos is for the OP to put them onto IMGUR.

okay, will try now.

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2019, 02:32:51 PM »
trying to post a photo

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2019, 02:33:42 PM »
So obviously it worked. I mean maybe the OP's file size is too big? In wich case they'd have to reduce their file size, there's a 500 mb restriction.

Lazlo

  • Private
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Karma: 175
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2019, 02:37:15 PM »
So it's important we achieve some clarity here because from what I understood of Dr. Sinn's cheekbone osteotomy is that he moves the lower orbital rim forward as well as part of the zygomatic complex. This is why he makes one internal incision and one external one near the outer edge of the eye (which he claims will be invisible in the final result).

What the OP is saying is that none of the orbital area is moved when this is in contradiction to what Dr. Sinn told and showed me. Maybe the OP is confused. So I'd like a clearer explanation about where exactly the cuts are made and what is moved.

Sinn had claimed before that he's able to do a box osteotomy but trust me he's never done it.

The only person who has some confidence in that area is Dr. Anthony S. Wolfe. He might be the only person in the world willing do it and he has a ton of confidence.

kavan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4029
  • Karma: 426
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2019, 03:19:04 PM »
So it's important we achieve some clarity here because from what I understood of Dr. Sinn's cheekbone osteotomy is that he moves the lower orbital rim forward as well as part of the zygomatic complex. This is why he makes one internal incision and one external one near the outer edge of the eye (which he claims will be invisible in the final result).

What the OP is saying is that none of the orbital area is moved when this is in contradiction to what Dr. Sinn told and showed me. Maybe the OP is confused. So I'd like a clearer explanation about where exactly the cuts are made and what is moved.

Sinn had claimed before that he's able to do a box osteotomy but trust me he's never done it.

The only person who has some confidence in that area is Dr. Anthony S. Wolfe. He might be the only person in the world willing do it and he has a ton of confidence.

Thanks Lazlo for confirming the directions could be followed. If the file size was in excess of what could be uploaded here, than perhaps IMGUR would be the place for the OP to put them.

The OP certainly does seem confused and not well researched enough to have gotten much out of the consultation.

I'm assuming the photo the OP tried the upload was that of a skull model Sinn showed.

I'm also assuming the implants the OP probably had prior were CHEEK implants that just made the orbital rim area look MORE recessed by relative comparison.

Other than that, if someone can't post photos (or doesn't want to post photos of themselves), doesn't know what to ask during a consult, doesn't clarify in the string what kind of implants they had in the past, I would not expect much clarity as to articulating to you what Sinn showed them vs. what he showed you.

ETA: Just did a search on the OP's post and the 'implants' were said to be extra large cheek implants.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 12:45:47 PM by kavan »
Please. No PMs for private advice. Board issues only.

SavingFace

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 4
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 02:59:33 PM »
Sorry, I have been been really busy with life and didn't even see that I had gotten replies on this or I would have clarified. I assume there's some way to get notified about replies, so I'll try to turn that on. I cannot think of everything to post all at once, which is why people can ask questions, but I did have another post in the doctor referral section that had a little more detail.

The implants were stock XL silicone implants (not custom ones), placed by Dr. Niamtu in Richmond. At the time I requested that he consider malar augmentation, and as of the time of the surgery, I thought this was the plan, but that's not what happened. He instead placed only submalar implants, and more laterally than is typical, so he told me. And yes, you're absolutely right that they accentuated my orbital rim deficiency and made my negative vector worse. Bingo. That's especially true because the doc did a lower lid bleph which also removed fat from the area, leading to what looks like a cavity. where the fat was removed and the skin just dropped. Niamtu is a good and pretty conservative doctor, but this one didn't go so well, and he admitted that to me.

To clarify, for Lazlo: Dr. Sinn absolutely told me that the osteotomy he proposed (not the box osteotomy) would not move my lower orbital rim forward. I asked him that question explicitly because my understanding (from this forum) is that it would move it forward and help my orbital rim deficiency. He said that if he made the cut far enough over to move the orbital rim, I would need a neurosurgeon present, which would cost over $70k. I assume that's because of the presence of the infraorbital nerve. If he cut far enough over on the bone, he would be past the infraorbital nerve. This of course complicates the surgery. Now with that said, I believe the cut he makes would have to move the lateral part of the orbital rim. I don't see how else he would move the zygomatic bone, but I didn't really go into a lot of detail with this because he recommended that we go with custom implants instead.

Will be happy to upload the picture of the skull model Dr. Sinn showed me with the area of the osteotomy highlighted. I am one of those sad people who takes a picture of everything, though! So I have to sort through something like 30,000 pictures to find it! (I know how to reduce it if needed.)

Thanks Lazlo for confirming the directions could be followed. If the file size was in excess of what could be uploaded here, than perhaps IMGUR would be the place for the OP to put them.

The OP certainly does seem confused and not well researched enough to have gotten much out of the consultation.

I'm assuming the photo the OP tried the upload was that of a skull model Sinn showed.

I'm also assuming the implants the OP probably had prior were CHEEK implants that just made the orbital rim area look MORE recessed by relative comparison.

Other than that, if someone can't post photos (or doesn't want to post photos of themselves), doesn't know what to ask during a consult, doesn't clarify in the string what kind of implants they had in the past, I would not expect much clarity as to articulating to you what Sinn showed them vs. what he showed you.

ETA: Just did a search on the OP's post and the 'implants' were said to be extra large cheek implants.

SavingFace

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 4
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2019, 03:36:32 PM »
To stay within the size limits, I will need to upload in separate messages, since there's a 500k limit per post and individually.

Here is one of the pictures. Keep in mind the actual cut is completely within the yellow border. The pictures aren't that helpful for our question. If I had known this would be a question, I would have taken the pictures from straight above the skull. I just wanted some record of what I was shown, and it wasn't a big deal to me at the time because he recommended an implant instead.

Anyway, it does appear as if a small part of the lower rim is moved on the side, but not much (this picture was taken from the side, so it actually makes it look like more of the lower rim is moved than is actually moved). He told me it wouldn't push my lower orbital rim forward and help my deficiency. I would be happy to email the office and get a more detailed answer if anyone would like.

Picture 1 of 2

SavingFace

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Karma: 4
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2019, 03:43:47 PM »
Picture 2 of 2 (also not that helpful for our question). Sorry about the quality of this one. For some reason, my phone took this picture in a different format (HEIC), so I had to reduce the image quality all the way down to 50% to get it to upload. If anyone wants the original image for any reason, just PM me your email.

micjawsurgery

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Karma: 8
Re: Consultation with Dr. Sinn: Help Please
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2019, 05:13:14 PM »
This doesn't make sense to me. Earl said the modified lefort 3 helped with his orbital rim deficiency, and Dr. Sinn told me I should expect an improvement in undereye support when I asked specifically about this. I am told the frontal process of the maxilla can infact be moved - but since the nerve runs through here I am wary and will ask again