Eternal Life

[GJ]

There's a Twilight Zone about this where they explore the boredom of eternal life, and I think that has merit, but just saying, if people are sitting in Old Faithful (ironically becoming shriveled up prunes and aging themselves) they might want to instead start looking at lobsters.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10294152/Lobsters-may-hold-the-key-to-eternal-life.html

How has big pharma not figured this out yet? I'm amazed how slowly progress moves in the modern age.

[Lazlo]

There's a Twilight Zone about this where they explore the boredom of eternal life, and I think that has merit, but just saying, if people are sitting in Old Faithful (ironically becoming shriveled up prunes and aging themselves) they might want to instead start looking at lobsters.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10294152/Lobsters-may-hold-the-key-to-eternal-life.html

How has big pharma not figured this out yet? I'm amazed how slowly progress moves in the modern age.

Are you talking about the geyser?  I was actually in Yellowstone and Montana last summer and saw it. I didn't know it had anti-aging benefits. It's interesting that it's a predictable geyser but I didn't really get what people found so amazing about it and why such a crowd.

As for the aging stuff. Man I don't know. Guys like George Church and David Sinclair (look them up if you don't know them) apparently say they're years from testing anti-aging CRISPR in clinical trials but who the hell knows.

We don't have a cure for baldness and we don't have any really biological ways of regenerating skin.
The difference between when I was in my late twenties and early thirties is immense. There was such a feeling of invincibility. I would love to feel that way again. Even if I were to get as fit as I was back then which is certainly doable, I don't think I'd feel that same joie de vivre that accompanies youth. But to look on the positive side, a lot of people think it is possible that aging will be conquered in the next few decades from 2040-50. But who knows. I've kind of given up even thinking about this stuff cause it puts me in a very unhelpful mindspace of what ifs.... and meanwhile life continues to slip by. I don't want to think "hmmmm I spent my life thinking about anti-aging therapies that never arrived...." So I'll finish contradicting myself and yeah, if there's news i"d love to hear it!

[PloskoPlus]

Are you talking about the geyser?  I was actually in Yellowstone and Montana last summer and saw it. I didn't know it had anti-aging benefits. It's interesting that it's a predictable geyser but I didn't really get what people found so amazing about it and why such a crowd.

As for the aging stuff. Man I don't know. Guys like George Church and David Sinclair (look them up if you don't know them) apparently say they're years from testing anti-aging CRISPR in clinical trials but who the hell knows.

We don't have a cure for baldness and we don't have any really biological ways of regenerating skin.
The difference between when I was in my late twenties and early thirties is immense. There was such a feeling of invincibility. I would love to feel that way again. Even if I were to get as fit as I was back then which is certainly doable, I don't think I'd feel that same joie de vivre that accompanies youth. But to look on the positive side, a lot of people think it is possible that aging will be conquered in the next few decades from 2040-50. But who knows. I've kind of given up even thinking about this stuff cause it puts me in a very unhelpful mindspace of what ifs.... and meanwhile life continues to slip by. I don't want to think "hmmmm I spent my life thinking about anti-aging therapies that never arrived...." So I'll finish contradicting myself and yeah, if there's news i"d love to hear it!

There is a theory that the brain loses most of its plasticity after the age of 25.  And this plasticity affects the way we experience novelty. IOW, new experiences just don't feel so intense after 25... From "WOW!" to "meh".

[kavan]

That lobster is making me hungry.

[Tezcatli]

How has big pharma not figured this out yet? I'm amazed how slowly progress moves in the modern age.

Because organisms are extremely complex and when you change some stuff here it affects something unintended there, many in vitro experiments do not work in vivo.
To make matters worse it literally takes a lifetime to conclude a complete experiment on aging. You create a baby that has some property similar to the lobster, will it live forever or at least longer? Let's wait at least 30-40 years to see concrete signs of aging.
I don't see anything close to immortality in this century, at least, except if we completely change paradigms by developing some form of super AI (but then that could simply overtake biological life, not that I believe it will happen either) or something else that isn't even being researched yet and I wouldn't even be able to speculate.

[Lazlo]

There is a theory that the brain loses most of its plasticity after the age of 25.  And this plasticity affects the way we experience novelty. IOW, new experiences just don't feel so intense after 25... From "WOW!" to "meh".

f**k I feel it's true in relation to love. I was such a romantic and could fall in love on-site. I don't feel like I fall in love in the same way. Ever since the one that got away I've had a couple intense relationships but since then, either I've just shut myself off from those kinds of feelings or as you say my brain no longer processes the novelty of the opposite sex in the same way.

Another terrible thing about getting older is the narrowing down of your horizon. In your 20s you imagined you could still be anything you wanted to be. Later on it's more about doing the best with what you have left.

I think I'd rather live a shorter life but completely youthful in appearance than a long one where I aged normally. God that is such a superficial thing to want and yet.... is it?

What would it take really to make a person at least look perpetually youthful. Wouldn't that just amount to discovering some kind of skin technology and hair rejuvenation?

But then I also think overall attractiveness is most important. Jared Leto, Brad Pitt, Daniel Day-Lewis will do all make very good looking older men even though the latter two do show their age. So I'd rather be extremely attractive. That would trump all I think. Even Marlon Brando before he got fat was a very attractive older man. Anyway, why am I even talking about this --yeah what tech would be needed to at least keep us looking youthful? In Steve Martin's biography he writes something to the effect of (describing highschool) "we were young then we were all beautiful" And its kind of true. Even a somewhat less attractive young person like in college is better looking than an attractive older person and that's simply because youth in itself is very attractive. Anyway, these scientists like Church etc. think they will be able to reverse it. I have no info to bet on this becoming a reality either way, but barring any kind of paradigm s**t, I doubt it's doable within our lifetimes... : (

[PloskoPlus]

But you'll be an old person with a young body... unless they work out how to return plasticity to the brain as well.  There is another theory that humans have decent recall of the past 30 or 40 years (I forget the exact number) and then the memories become weaker and weaker.  In which case you might be a perpetual 35 or 45 year old with the neuroplasticity of a 20 year old.  I still think if we ever get to this future of perpetual youth, you will be able to tell the truly young from the "forever young".  Time puts a stamp on things, no matter what, unless people will undergo amnesia treatment to really reset themselves... in which case, you'll be a different person, so what's the point then?

[Post bimax]

The difference between when I was in my late twenties and early thirties is immense. There was such a feeling of invincibility. I would love to feel that way again. Even if I were to get as fit as I was back then which is certainly doable, I don't think I'd feel that same joie de vivre that accompanies youth. But to look on the positive side, a lot of people think it is possible that aging will be conquered in the next few decades from 2040-50. But who knows. I've kind of given up even thinking about this stuff cause it puts me in a very unhelpful mindspace of what ifs.... and meanwhile life continues to slip by. I don't want to think "hmmmm I spent my life thinking about anti-aging therapies that never arrived...." So I'll finish contradicting myself and yeah, if there's news i"d love to hear it!     

Lazlo, have you had your T levels checked? It’s not ‘anti aging’ but TRT helps a lot of guys feel physically virile and alleviates brain fog. Many describe it as feeling like they’re in their 20s again.

[GJ]

That lobster is making me hungry.

These pretzels are making me thirsty!

[GJ]

Anyway, lobsters can live forever. When Oasis sang "you and I are going to live forever", I now know they were serenading a lobster.

[Lazlo]

Lazlo, have you had your T levels checked? It’s not ‘anti aging’ but TRT helps a lot of guys feel physically virile and alleviates brain fog. Many describe it as feeling like they’re in their 20s again.

Thanks for reminding me. I've gained a fair bit of weight over the past couple years and esp. belly fat. I do think that effects T-levels. I asked my GP to do a T test but she never followed up after the blood work so I figured I was fine. But you're right I need to follow up on that and see if TRT is a good option for me. Part of my problem is just general depression and sort of contextual factors about where I am in life, those will take more work.

[Lazlo]

But you'll be an old person with a young body... unless they work out how to return plasticity to the brain as well.  There is another theory that humans have decent recall of the past 30 or 40 years (I forget the exact number) and then the memories become weaker and weaker.  In which case you might be a perpetual 35 or 45 year old with the neuroplasticity of a 20 year old.  I still think if we ever get to this future of perpetual youth, you will be able to tell the truly young from the "forever young".  Time puts a stamp on things, no matter what, unless people will undergo amnesia treatment to really reset themselves... in which case, you'll be a different person, so what's the point then?

Yeah, you're no doubt correct. But it might be okay to be an "old" person living in a youthful body.

It's funny by the way what you sait about tooth show and age. I'm in Miami right now and there are tons of people with bad PS here. But there are also people who take really good care of themselves and older people who are fit who have good tooth show don't look weird at all. In fact they look healthier because of that (assuming its like good teeth with good gum tissue, not f**ked up crowns and implants and dark gum spots). But I disagree that having tooth show at an older age makes you look weird.

The memory thing actually answers a key question for me. I lost some very dear loved one's and my best friend when I was younger and I remember every moment with them. And I often wonder why I spend so much of my time thinking about them and why those memories never fade, everything from the brand of cola we might have drunk to the weather outside that day. I have years worth of such memories and sometimes it makes me so sad that I can't forget and be more in the present.

But your memory theory makes sense. I'm just not making new memories...

[GJ]

I have years worth of such memories and sometimes it makes me so sad that I can't forget and be more in the present.

Native cultures celebrate a person's life instead of wallowing about their death. I'm not saying that's easy, but it is healthy.
Not sure why Western culture isn't wired this way, but we aren't. Probably because Hallmark wants to sell use cards, Big Pharma wants us on meds, or some s**t.

[kavan]

Anyway, lobsters can live forever. When Oasis sang "you and I are going to live forever", I now know they were serenading a lobster.

No they can't. It's scientifically impossible.

They can live a long time, about 100 years, some found up to 140 years. But they don't live forever. It would be scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for them to live 'forever' given that the surface area increases needed to cover protect thier volume increases over the course of time would not be able to 'keep up' with ample surface area coverage.

They grow--increase their VOLUME-- as they age. Volume increases require SURFACE AREA increases where they have to shed their shell (moult) and grow a new one. Growth rate is some function of time. But increases in growth can NEVER be UNIFORM (or constant) for both the volume and surface area because the dimensions of the volume increase by a CUBIC function  where as dimensions of the surface area increase by a SQUARE function. Eventually, growing a new shell to accommodate volume increases would become too exhausting and/or take TOO LONG to protect them from infection which is WHY they DIE and don't live forever.

In fact, that's what happens to lobsters. They can keep growing for a long time. But they MAX OUT at some LARGE size (volume) and DIE because the surface area increases (shell regeneration) can't keep up with the volume increases over the course of time. It takes too much energy for them to grow a new shell.

The dimensions of an organism don't increase by a constant factor of 'c'. Volume increases by a factor of c CUBED but the supporting 'strength' or SURFACE AREA to protect it only increases by a factor of c SQUARED.  So, the more the lobster 'grows' in VOLUME, it will reach a point where the SURFACE AREA (shell) to protect it's volume (inner body) will NOT be able to 'keep up' with it's size increase.

For example, take a look at a very basic CUBE of 1CC VOLUME where one side is 1cm and surface area is 6cm2 and look at how surface area and volume changes.

1 cm side...1CC.......6 cm2 surface area
2 cm side   8CC.......24 cm2 surface area....4X SA of that of the original
3 cm side  27CC.......54 cm2 suface area.....9X SA of that of the original
4 cm side  64CC.......96 Cm2 surface area....16X SA of that of the original
5 cm side 125CC......150 cm2 surface area....25X SA of that of the original
6 cm side 216CC......216 cm2 surface area....36X SA of that of the original

Here's an article about why they DO die. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dont-listen-to-the-buzz-lobsters-arent-actually-immortal-88450872/

But it fails to go over the basic science describing growth and form that relates to surface area and volume. To understand that, 'Classic' science is needed. I suggest you read D’Arcy Thompson’s book 'On Growth and Form' or Galileo's 'Two New Sciences' for the REAL science and math behind why there is a limit as to how things can and can't increase in size proportionately in a 'linear' way.

[kavan]

Native cultures celebrate a person's life instead of wallowing about their death. I'm not saying that's easy, but it is healthy.
Not sure why Western culture isn't wired this way, but we aren't. Probably because Hallmark wants to sell use cards, Big Pharma wants us on meds, or some s**t.

Some primitive culture even eat their elders after death to keep their memory 'alive' within their own flesh. No funeral with much mourning, weeping and grieving. Instead, a fun filled family barbecue.