(LOTS of) Complications associated with orthognathic surgery

[kavan]

(LOTS of) Complications associated with orthognathic surgery

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5342970/

[Lefortitude]

Is it plausible that the standards for performing orthognathic surgery are looser in SK, resulting in higher morbidity rates?

[Lefortitude]

Just finished the article.

"Fourteen cases of serious complications such as death and falling into a vegetative state after jaw bone surgery such as the orthognathic surgery (10 cases) and facial contouring surgery (4 cases) were reported in the period from 2000 to 2016. Causes of these complications were bleeding in two cases, respiratory problems in four cases, surgical errors in one case, and unknown in six cases. The procedures were performed by plastic surgeons in 12 cases, by dentists in one case, and in a university hospital in one case (Exact department is unknown)."

A Dentist? a f**king dentist? Are dentists allowed to do orthognathic surgery in north america or europe?  I know most plastic surgeons ive spoken with, EVEN IF THEYRE TRAINED MAXFACS wont touch orthgnathic surgery cases.   

[kavan]

All maxfax or 'oral surgeons' start with a DENTAL DEGREE. So, all of them can be called 'dentists'  because the DDS stands for Doctor of Dental Surgery. Even Gunson has the 'DDS' beside his name. But of course, also has the MD degree for specialty of maxfax surgery.
So, I guess what you mean to saY is a dentist with NO advanced maxillo-facial surgery training.

A lot of the problem, I guess can arise from lax standards of any doctor doing some type of 'cosmetic' surgery which many pro-societies in US such as the plastic surgeons take issue with.

Article is from Korean Maxillofacial, oral surgery journal. So, maybe most of their data out of Korea but I don't know. In Korea, they do BOAT LOADS of maxfax surgery and they even advertise it in the subways. So, I guess the MORE surgeries done, the more data kicks up for the complications. But all those complications are inherent with the surgery. It's just that the better doctors are going to have FEWER of them.

IMO, best thing to do is to ask for the DISCLOSURE/informed consent legal document that has all the risks on them and ask for that WAY BEFORE the surgery where, I guess most of those risks would be listed. More often than not, it's the LEAST READ document patients read. Sometimes it's even slipped to them the day of surgery where they need to sign it.

[PloskoPlus]

MD became a requirement only in the 80s. Some older surgeons only have a DDS degree. I believe Sinn and Arnett do not have an MD, but Wolford is of the same vintage and does.

[GJ]

Remember that kid who started a YT channel about his surgery then died days later?
That was rough to watch. I believe a female surgeon in Seattle cut a major artery.

[Post bimax]

Remember that kid who started a YT channel about his surgery then died days later?
That was rough to watch. I believe a female surgeon in Seattle cut a major artery.

I did not know about that... that's horrible.

MD became a requirement only in the 80s. Some older surgeons only have a DDS degree. I believe Sinn and Arnett do not have an MD, but Wolford is of the same vintage and does.

Posnick (possibly retired now?) is another older surgeon who has an MD

[GJ]

I did not know about that... that's horrible.

Yeah it was really surreal and tragic. He was like "see you on the other side of surgery" or something like that.
Then in the comments people said he died. Sure enough he did. I wish I could remember the surgeon...I believe it was an Asian woman from the Seattle area, and the cause was severing some major artery. I can't seem to find anything in Google. There were news articles about it at the time so I'm not sure why I can't find it.

[kavan]

I did not know about that... that's horrible.

Posnick (possibly retired now?) is another older surgeon who has an MD

...and who also lives in MD.   

He's in the plastic surgery 'loop'. So, a practitioner who's a member of a legit plastic surgery or facial plastic surgery society, definitely HAS TO BE and MD.

[kavan]

Googled 'dental death in Seattle'. May not have come up with specific doctor who was associated with the patient death of the You Tube person. But in the search for Seattle dental mishaps, I found some other scary links. Don't mean to alarm anyone. Just sayin', since I did a search on some of this stuff, I might as well share some of the other links I came up with.

Here's one about a Melanie Lang oral surgeon who, (i think) had non MD administer IV sedation.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-court-of-appeals/1298835.html


Here's a few links about dental deaths in Seattle:

'Fifth dental death in 3 years
Student has an allergic reaction to medication after oral surgery.'

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Fifth-dental-death-in-3-years-1280106.php

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Enough-scrutiny-in-dental-deaths-1279293.php


If it's a matter of going to a HOSPITAL in Seattle after a complication of surgery, here's a link to deaths due to MOLD.

http://www.theprogressnews.com/news/nation/seattle-hospital-to-reopen-rooms-after-mold-death/video_b6587ac8-ff8a-5925-81ae-99e86a32014a.html



As to the header article in this link out of Korea, here's another one (about MORTALITY RATES) that counters the negative public perception that the media sometimes focuses on:

'Analysis of mortality cases related to jaw surgery reported in the mass media: a secondary publication.'

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5104877/

[kavan]

Yeah it was really surreal and tragic. He was like "see you on the other side of surgery" or something like that.
Then in the comments people said he died. Sure enough he did. I wish I could remember the surgeon...I believe it was an Asian woman from the Seattle area, and the cause was severing some major artery. I can't seem to find anything in Google. There were news articles about it at the time so I'm not sure why I can't find it.

Did a search on 'Find a Surgeon' in Seattle area on the   https://myoms.org/  website.  The only female surgeons I could find with Asian sounding names was Melanie S Lang (who's not Asian but for whom I linked to a law case in my prior post.) and Ju Yon Sophie Yi (who is Asian).  But who knows, the search function CRAPPED OUT on me and maybe the surgeon in question wasn't even a member.  Either of those names sound familiar?

[GJ]

No, neither.
Maybe it was in Oregon. It was somewhere in the PNW. Or maybe it was somewhere else, and I'm confusing cases, but I don't think so.
I remember on Yelp people attacked her, and in the YT comments on his video. I'll have to try using the search function on this site later to find it. I think it was posted here, too.

[kavan]

No, neither.
Maybe it was in Oregon. It was somewhere in the PNW. Or maybe it was somewhere else, and I'm confusing cases, but I don't think so.
I remember on Yelp people attacked her, and in the YT comments on his video. I'll have to try using the search function on this site later to find it. I think it was posted here, too.

Oh well. I guess that explains why no Asian female maxfax found in Seattle that fit the bill.

[GJ]

I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Oc_NFhlUE

In the YouTube comments someone writes, "Does anyone have info on what artery was accidentally cut?"

The thing is, at the time there were articles about this. It was all over the news, and now I can't find any. I wonder if the surgeon demanded Google remove all the info. I remember it being a female doctor from the PWN and she did in fact sever an artery. Maybe with the video someone can find more info. His name was Justin.

[kavan]

I found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Oc_NFhlUE

In the YouTube comments someone writes, "Does anyone have info on what artery was accidentally cut?"

The thing is, at the time there were articles about this. It was all over the news, and now I can't find any. I wonder if the surgeon demanded Google remove all the info. I remember it being a female doctor from the PWN and she did in fact sever an artery. Maybe with the video someone can find more info. His name was Justin.

OK, saw the YT video.  I looked up name 'Justin Love', which was his real name and found obituary where they said he died in med procedure. But no details.

https://www.peakefh.com/obituary/love-justin

YT video said something about his needing HIP BONE to be harvested for the surgery. So, maybe it was orthopedic surgeon doing the hip harvest? If the artery was from the hip harvest, could have been the femoral artery.