Very concerned about my situation (face too long/narrow and recessed), advice?

[droplyfe]

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[GJ]

Call me crazy, but I think you look good. Good features and good spacing of said features. People insulting other people's looks have issues with themselves. Period and no exceptions.

Now to your jaw: complex case because your upper jaw is recessed, yet if you move it forward linearly you'll highlight the recession in the lower jaw. CCW is potentially an option, but the geometry of it doesn't line up just doing the movement in my head. Worth consulting with a surgeon who does CCW and seeing what they say, though. If so post the plan so we can have a look. That movement would help with your apnea symptoms more than just moving the upper jaw forward. If you move the upper jaw forward, you'd have to do a fairly large genio to get the lower in balance. Could be dicey. Again, if you consult with someone who proposes that post the plan.

All this said, I think you should tread lightly. You look good despite what people say, and you also look ethnic. That could be lost by a surgeon who tries to match your face to a Western ideal. I've seen it happen. Those patients are some of the most upset of all. Your bite also looks pretty good (slightly edge to edge?) from what I can tell. So, for all these reasons, do a lot of research.

[droplyfe]

Thanks for the response! Just wondering, do you think getting some maxilla expansion (with the MSE) would be a good idea? I've emailed a very qualified ortho my scans and about the possibility of trying that with a protraction mask since I may have a young enough bone age to see changes (would be a much less complicated way if it is possible).

Now to your jaw: complex case because your upper jaw is recessed, yet if you move it forward linearly you'll highlight the recession in the lower jaw. CCW is potentially an option, but the geometry of it doesn't line up just doing the movement in my head. Worth consulting with a surgeon who does CCW and seeing what they say, though. If so post the plan so we can have a look. That movement would help with your apnea symptoms more than just moving the upper jaw forward. If you move the upper jaw forward, you'd have to do a fairly large genio to get the lower in balance. Could be dicey. Again, if you consult with someone who proposes that post the plan.

Yeah my ortho said that could be a possibility because I have a slightly gummy smile (not terrible but gives that ability?). I live a few hours away from both Dr Wolford and Dr Sinn so do you think its worth taking a bus up there to find out what they say? Also, this is probably something I could find out pretty quickly, but are consultation wait times long? Does CCW also take away the "long face" appearance?

All this said, I think you should tread lightly. You look good despite what people say, and you also look ethnic. That could be lost by a surgeon who tries to match your face to a Western ideal. I've seen it happen. Those patients are some of the most upset of all. Your bite also looks pretty good (slightly edge to edge?) from what I can tell. So, for all these reasons, do a lot of research.

Yeah, unfortunately there are a lot of factors to ease through. Sorry for all of the questions and I really appreciate your help!

[GJ]

Yes you're right since you're 17 it's possible MSE could still work, though I'd try that sooner than later. There's evidence that the skull doesn't fully fuse until early 20s now (used to be thought it was 18), so you might have time. It's possible they can test the density of the bone and maybe even see if it has fused on a scan. I'm not sure if that's possible, but worth an ask. If it hasn't, might try MSE. After the bone has fused I don't believe in it and really any expansion is just flaring teeth outward at that point. If the bone does move it all I'm skeptical it would be stable once you're done growing.

Sinn and Wolford would be very qualified and good to run your case by.

[ben from UK]

I have heard so many negative comments about my appearance that it’s become very frustrating and I have no idea what to do

> In the past or now? I think you could do with casual looks improvement. Gaining muscles if you like that, better haircut, better clothes, etc. Your front looks pretty good.

If you want a girl, most women don't care about looks anyway. Confidence is key.

[droplyfe]

I have heard so many negative comments about my appearance that it’s become very frustrating and I have no idea what to do

> In the past or now? I think you could do with casual looks improvement. Gaining muscles if you like that, better haircut, better clothes, etc. Your front looks pretty good.

If you want a girl, most women don't care about looks anyway. Confidence is key.

Yea that is true, I'm a bit on the tall side with longer shoulders (albeit very skinny) so filling out would be good. I'm just very concerned about fixing that "long face" look because its something that wasn't there when I was younger and got worse and worse. Plus I believe it will get worse if I don't fix my breathing and oral posture issues (not sure abt this tbh)?

[LeFort 3000]

obviously this young man gotten influenced way too much by lookism culture...

[droplyfe]

obviously this young man gotten influenced way too much by lookism culture...

Nah I am not socially unsuccessful by any means or deluded (not meaning this offensively). I've had nasal airway issues and symptoms of apnea reported by my orthodontist and confirmed by a local maxfac (who requested a sleep study that my insurance didn't accept unfortunately). I have been through surgery before to straighten my septum and clear out a bit of excess material, which did not work.

But I am not lying when I saw I've heard some variation of "why the long face", been nicknamed cinnamon stick, or heard a comment about how narrow my face literally 15+ times in real life. Especially given that I used to not look like this, it has made quite a hit on my own perception and I would do a lot to fix it.

[ben from UK]

Yeah well, fair enough. I think by moving the chin forward, you could make the most improvement. You have kind of a weak profile, making your nose look bigger, mostly due to recessed chin. Although, I must say, it's also due to your thin neck from profile and posture/lankyness. If you manage to build up mass, you would maybe gain confidence and if would make you look more impressive.

I wouldn't do anything with your nose aestethically. A good, prominent nose is a masculine feature. So except for maybe a slightly weak chin, everything else is more body/posture and just looking unhappy.

I don't know man, people are just nasty sometimes with comments etc. I don't see any problem with the long face from the front. It's okay from the front, profile is a bit more problematic. Long face isn't bad per se when the face has equal thirds, which is probably the case with you.

[GJ]

OP, what ethnicity are you? I have a friend who is Brazilian with a very similar jaw structure.
To me it fits the ethnicity and doesn't look abnormal, whereas the same structure would look out of place on say a Swedish woman.

[droplyfe]

OP, what ethnicity are you? I have a friend who is Brazilian with a very similar jaw structure.
To me it fits the ethnicity and doesn't look abnormal, whereas the same structure would look out of place on say a Swedish woman.

Both of my parents are from North Indian descent afaik (not sure if there is any racial mixing in my ancestry lol)

[droplyfe]

Yeah well, fair enough. I think by moving the chin forward, you could make the most improvement. You have kind of a weak profile, making your nose look bigger, mostly due to recessed chin. Although, I must say, it's also due to your thin neck from profile and posture/lankyness. If you manage to build up mass, you would maybe gain confidence and if would make you look more impressive.

I wouldn't do anything with your nose aestethically. A good, prominent nose is a masculine feature. So except for maybe a slightly weak chin, everything else is more body/posture and just looking unhappy.

I don't know man, people are just nasty sometimes with comments etc. I don't see any problem with the long face from the front. It's okay from the front, profile is a bit more problematic. Long face isn't bad per se when the face has equal thirds, which is probably the case with you.

I think I do have equal thirds from the front. Although my chin is recessed, it has a good height so they kinda fit together ig. Isn't my upper jaw recessed too? From the side profile I can see a bit of a flat look and my upper lip is a bit set back from the bottom lip (both lips have the same inherent shape). Do you think some type of CCW movement would help me?

[Breakingbad]

I looked at your pictures and found you quite pleasant looking. Your face generally doesn’t appear long in the pictures, except in the one where you’re outdoors. Even then it doesn’t really look long, just longish by uhh.. insane Instagram standards I guess.

What others have said about your profile seems like it would be true, but I didn’t read carefully. You may want to consult with some maxillofacial surgeons. I would add though that it may be the fact that your jaw angles are either too high up or too narrow. If you draw a horizontal line through the front of your face at the centre of your lips, you’d see the width of your face at that level there is narrower than the width around your eye level. It seems that many of the best looking men have a facial width at that level of approximately the same width as at the eye area. I can’t tell though whether your face is narrower there because the jaw angles are too high, too narrow or both, though. I don’t know if that’s an ideal that fits every face though so you may want to try morphing photos to see how it might look.

[Breakingbad]

OP, what ethnicity are you? I have a friend who is Brazilian with a very similar jaw structure.
To me it fits the ethnicity and doesn't look abnormal, whereas the same structure would look out of place on say a Swedish woman.

Interesting thought, but people of “Brazilian” ethnicity are actually no less diverse than US Americans. In addition to first generation immigrants from all kinds of places, many people are definitely Brazilian but of totally European ancestry, others are African, Native American or a mixture of all of those. Just thought I’d add that. It’s probably tricky to tell people of other ethnicities what’s “wrong” with their faces based on Eurocentric beauty standards, but I think they still apply a lot of the time.

[Gadwins]

You look similar like me, it's just the really really slight weak chin which gives you maybe an angry/sad look. I think from an aesthetical point  of view you don't need the full bimax procedure, but just a genio.