Author Topic: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson  (Read 10846 times)

kavan

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2020, 11:32:31 AM »
The OP in this thread was looking for cheaper alternatives to Gunson.

It was IMPLICIT he was looking for doctors who had something in COMMON with how Gunson does things. It was also implicit to me that IF he had the FINANCES, he would go to Gunson. So here, my advice targeted the common CONNECTION to Gunson; the teachings of Arnett.

Gunson learned (a lot) from Arnett. Also that he uses software attributable to Arnett. I isolated the software that other doctors learning from Arnett's experience (or receptive to his outlook) would most likely be using and suggested ways he could possibly track down other doctors benefiting from Arnett's teachings (Symposiums, conferences).

When ever I give advice on here, it's meant to be RELATIVE to the OP and takes into consideration the CONTEXT of the OP's presentation. I make no claims that advice I TARGET to any one OP of a thread is meant to apply to everyone reading my advice. The only expectation I have when giving advice on here is that the OP be in the CAPACITY to conclude for him/her self whether of not the advice is applicable to him/her.
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DRIVVEN

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2020, 12:08:48 PM »
The OP in this thread was looking for cheaper alternatives to Gunson.

It was IMPLICIT he was looking for doctors who had something in COMMON with how Gunson does things. It was also implicit to me that IF he had the FINANCES, he would go to Gunson. So here, my advice targeted the common CONNECTION to Gunson; the teachings of Arnett.

Gunson learned (a lot) from Arnett. Also that he uses software attributable to Arnett. I isolated the software that other doctors learning from Arnett's experience (or receptive to his outlook) would most likely be using and suggested ways he could possibly track down other doctors benefiting from Arnett's teachings (Symposiums, conferences).


When ever I give advice on here, it's meant to be RELATIVE to the OP and takes into consideration the CONTEXT of the OP's presentation. I make no claims that advice I TARGET to any one OP of a thread is meant to apply to everyone reading my advice. The only expectation I have when giving advice on here is that the OP be in the CAPACITY to conclude for him/her self whether of not the advice is applicable to him/her.

Feel free to erase my posts if not  relevant to the OP.  Since Dr. Movahed, a fellow of Wolford, is not a fan of Arnett and his teachings and its not clear if Relle is a follower either, I did not think the post was so limited in its inquiry.  I discovered Dr.  Sullivan when he recently spoke at the Arnett Gunson Surgery forum, and i know that Dr. Arnett spoke at a forum with Dr. Sullivan in OKC, so it did not appear to me that i was making off topic response. Like i said, feel free to erase my responses to the OP.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2020, 03:47:45 PM by kavan »

kavan

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2020, 03:54:40 PM »
Feel free to erase my posts if not  relevant to the OP.  Since Dr. Movahed, a fellow of Wolford, is not a fan of Arnett and his teachings and its not clear if Relle is a follower either, I did not think the post was so limited in its inquiry.  I discovered Dr.  Sullivan when he recently spoke at the Arnett Gunson Surgery forum, and i know that Dr. Arnett spoke at a forum with Dr. Sullivan in OKC, so it did not appear to me that i was making off topic response. Like i said, feel free to erase my responses to the OP.

Actually, what I'd rather not have to do with your posts is correct them due to your not using the QUOTE FUNCTION correctly. I just had to take your comment out  which was WITHIN the quote of what I said.  When you are posting and using the quote function, PLEASE post your content after the last bracket after where it says; 'quote' . thank you.
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emanresu

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2020, 07:37:50 PM »
Found something mentioning an Antonio D'Agostino (Italy) and from that a FABknowledge website that has some leads as to names of other doctors. https://fabknowledge.com/antonio-dagostino-md/

another link from same website: https://fabknowledge.com/topic/

Thank you for the follow-up, kavan. Yes, I also see Dr. Esteban Alvarado from Costa Rica, and Dr. Octavio Cintra from Brazil here. While I don't know anything about the medical systems in these countries (yet), nor how “risky” they may or may not be, I imagine they would be cheaper than the US assuming they're using their local currencies, and are absolutely worth investigating.

I have consulted with several of these surgeons.  I had my initial surgery with Dr. Gunson.  I recently had surgery to repair the damage from my first surgery by Dr. Steven Sullivan in OKC. https://profilesofs.com/steven-sullivan  IMO, he is as good or better a surgeon than any on that list. Competitive prices.  You should know however that like movahed, he does not follow the Arnett analysis.

Hi there, does Dr. Sullivan perform counterclockwise rotations with posterior downgrafts? If so, he's definitely relevant to this discussion.

I know that several surgeons were performing the surgery you describe before Arnett and before the software was invented. Others may differ in point of view, but in my opinion the the depth, the experience  and execution ability of the surgeon would be top priority to me. My virtual surgery plan from Gunson was made using different software, from 3m.  Maybe there is some magic for specific patients in NemoFab?

Apologies for any confusion: I reference Gunson not necessarily because of his “style” or method of analysis, but because of his ability to perform CCW rotations w/ posterior downgrafts, a procedure that many people on this board come to learn they need, but are then left trying to figure out how exactly they can realistically go about getting this treatment.

It’s my understanding that if a surgeon is using NemoFAB, it’s a good indicator that they are doing this type of procedure.

I agree that finding a surgeon who is experienced and capable is a top priority, and one with a good reputation can indicate that. However, when someone is need of a CCW rotation w/ posterior downgraft, while there are several doctors with good reputations that come recommended for that, many people cannot afford their prices. I'm trying to find doctors who have a lower price point, but are still capable of performing this complex procedure, and, while they may not have the reputation of some of these other doctors, one would hope that they're still competent surgeons.

Feel free to erase my posts if not  relevant to the OP.  Since Dr. Movahed, a fellow of Wolford, is not a fan of Arnett and his teachings and its not clear if Relle is a follower either, I did not think the post was so limited in its inquiry.  I discovered Dr.  Sullivan when he recently spoke at the Arnett Gunson Surgery forum, and i know that Dr. Arnett spoke at a forum with Dr. Sullivan in OKC, so it did not appear to me that i was making off topic response. Like i said, feel free to erase my responses to the OP.

Regarding Dr. Movahed, I have read that he is capable of doing CCWs w/ posterior downgrafts, so that’s why I mentioned him. Having spoken with Dr. Relle, I can also confirm he does them.

PloskoPlus

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2020, 04:07:10 AM »
Movahed studied with Wolford. Wolford invented CCW-r.

PloskoPlus

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2020, 04:10:03 AM »

great advice Kavan! Does Alfaro use this software?
Alfaro doesn't give 2 s**ts about the bite, or symmetry for that matter. And he's not cheap either.

emanresu

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2020, 10:05:02 AM »
Alfaro doesn't give 2 s**ts about the bite, or symmetry for that matter. And he's not cheap either.

Yes, from what I've read, his prices are on par, if not slightly more than some of the previously mentioned US surgeons. Although he may be a consideration for European patients, if you're located in North America and at any point were considering seeing him hoping to get a better price than you would locally, you won't, and you're better off saving yourself the hassle and staying on your continent.

DRIVVEN

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2020, 04:33:05 PM »
Thank you for the follow-up, kavan. Yes, I also see Dr. Esteban Alvarado from Costa Rica, and Dr. Octavio Cintra from Brazil here. While I don't know anything about the medical systems in these countries (yet), nor how “risky” they may or may not be, I imagine they would be cheaper than the US assuming they're using their local currencies, and are absolutely worth investigating.

Hi there, does Dr. Sullivan perform counterclockwise rotations with posterior downgrafts? If so, he's definitely relevant to this discussion.


Yes he does, and i think he has been performing counterclockwise rotation with  and/or without posterior downgraft  for many years. Good luck with your search and your journey, its very consuming.


PloskoPlus

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2020, 05:44:47 PM »
Yes, from what I've read, his prices are on par, if not slightly more than some of the previously mentioned US surgeons. Although he may be a consideration for European patients, if you're located in North America and at any point were considering seeing him hoping to get a better price than you would locally, you won't, and you're better off saving yourself the hassle and staying on your continent.
I'd be more concerned about Alfaro's asymmetrical results, cross bites, edge bites, misaligned midlines, canted maxillas.

Lazlo

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2020, 06:03:47 PM »
I'd be more concerned about Alfaro's asymmetrical results, cross bites, edge bites, misaligned midlines, canted maxillas.

but what about that woman who posted here and said she had great rates with Alfaro.

Okay, here's what i want to know. Assuming my bite is currently fine. Is there a doc who will do CCW posterior downdraft without requiring orthodontics, or if at the minimum can do so with invisaligh.

kavan

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #25 on: September 11, 2020, 06:17:03 PM »
I'd be more concerned about Alfaro's asymmetrical results, cross bites, edge bites, misaligned midlines, canted maxillas.

He's looking for an alternative to the big names doing CCW (whether or not they invented CCW) because they are out of his price range.  Moot point to suggest concern about a doctor he's not going to.
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PloskoPlus

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #26 on: September 11, 2020, 09:23:16 PM »
but what about that woman who posted here and said she had great rates with Alfaro.

Okay, here's what i want to know. Assuming my bite is currently fine. Is there a doc who will do CCW posterior downdraft without requiring orthodontics, or if at the minimum can do so with invisaligh.
That woman was a long time ago. Alfaro will operate on you without braces, no drama. Just don't expect a stable bite afterwards. If your bite is indeed good, then 1 month pre-op braces, 4 months post-op is enough.

Lazlo

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2020, 12:25:27 AM »
That woman was a long time ago. Alfaro will operate on you without braces, no drama. Just don't expect a stable bite afterwards. If your bite is indeed good, then 1 month pre-op braces, 4 months post-op is enough.


thanks for the head's up. appreciate it. I've noticed he's taken down all his before/afters.

InvisalignOnly

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2020, 01:53:56 AM »
That woman was a long time ago. Alfaro will operate on you without braces, no drama. Just don't expect a stable bite afterwards. If your bite is indeed good, then 1 month pre-op braces, 4 months post-op is enough.

I know we aren't discussing prices here, but just as an indication: yes, that woman was a long time ago and currently Alfaro is one of the most expensive maxillofacial surgeons in the whole of Europe (to my knowledge, only Swiss doctors charge more). From what I hear, many doctors in the USA are cheaper. If I recall correctly, that lady who posted here already had a good bite, it was a sleep apnea case. I do not want to say anything more but if anybody is interested, they can go on Youtube to watch his before-after videos (and bear in mind, those are presumably the very best results and the most satisfied patients).
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 02:04:57 AM by InvisalignOnly »

Dopesaint

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Re: Cheapest Alternative to Gunson
« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2020, 10:43:21 AM »

thanks for the head's up. appreciate it. I've noticed he's taken down all his before/afters.

They are still there https://www.institutomaxilofacial.com/en/orthognathic-surgery/clinical-cases-orthognatic-surgery/