CelticCaveGirls cephs - class 2 div 2 short face

[overbiter]

Uh, great results and all, but do we really think my case is bad enough to require an inverted-L??      I know I look a little like a mouse but....

I don't know what you look like either, but in my experience the pain of having bad aesthetics is a hundred times worse than the pain/trauma of surgery. I've never had surgery before, I just feel this to be true.

Maybe your case is not so bad, but in that case why are you planning surgery at all? If a job is worth doing it's worth doing well, otherwise not at all.

[Tiny]

Maybe your case is not so bad, but in that case why are you planning surgery at all? If a job is worth doing it's worth doing well, otherwise not at all.

I guess have what you might describe as a 'cute overbite'.  But IMO, I am not a child and have no desire to look cute.  I am 26 and look about 21/22 and own and run a business in a rather female-unfriendly environment and am finding it hard sometimes to be taken seriously.  (all my clients are male)

I am doing the surgery as 3/4 orthos, 2/2 surgeons and 2/2 dentists I have consulted so far have recommended it, and have said that if I don't do it now then I will likely have to do it in 10 years anyway.  My bite is really pretty messed up (deep bite, overjet, crossbite, posterior open bite) and as a result I will almost certainly lose my lower incisors in the next 10-15 years.  They were pushed into an unnatural position (upwards and outwards) via earlier orthodontics to close the overjet and as a result of this and the current bite the gum recession is very bad and getting worse.  I will also end up with massive teeth wearing at an early age.  I also have asymmetry in in my lower face (whole thing is about 2mm off-center)

I don't think being generally OK looking is less reason to have the surgery if your bite is messed up.  My profile is considerably worse than others I've seen who got surgery

[CK]

I don't know what you look like either, but in my experience the pain of having bad aesthetics is a hundred times worse than the pain/trauma of surgery

disagree. unless you are like deformed looking.

@cav

your asymmetry is completely normal. 2mm is nothing.

[Tiny]

your asymmetry is completely normal. 2mm is nothing.

OK, I didn't measure it exactly, but it's significant!  You can see quite clearly that my chin and lips are different on both sides and that my entire lower face isn't symmetric, and I have a cross bite...oh, and to add a little fun to the mix my eyes are different colours too    My nose is asymmetric as it's never been the same after the kickboxing accident I had.  I was hoping that it would be straighter after the rhino but unfortunately it's still off-center.  Maybe I slept on my side too soon or something....    Anyway, jaw surgery won't fix that issue, I have to live with the squinty nose 

The dentist I spoke to today had done a decent amount of maxfac rotation and he told me that if I were not non-resident I'd very likely to be able to get at least a BSSO on the NHS.  That surprised me.  If it's bad enough that the NHS would cover the surgery then I think my parents aren't going to object as much.

I am not worried about the pain of the surgery, TBH.   I had the original kickboxing nose-break (anaesthetic and painkiller free, obviously!...)and then the septo- rhino so I kindof know what recovery will be like.   Jaw surgery will be worse in terms of swelling, duration, total area and eating but I know what the sensations, congestion, not sleeping etc. will feel like.

My body has inflicted far more intense pain and unpleasantness on me naturally than I have ever experienced via a surgical procedure anyway.  Also, you don't know pain until you've tried threading your upper lip 

[Cmonster]

Also, you don't know pain until you've tried threading your upper lip 

I am going to agree with this 100%- this is the mother of all torture and I've had surgery and fairly high tolerance for pain.

[Lazlo]

I am going to agree with this 100%- this is the mother of all torture and I've had surgery and fairly high tolerance for pain.

phewf, this makes me feel a lot better frankly....

[Cmonster]

NO THANK YOU! I've had my eyebrows waxed and that was painful enough, i've heard threading is next level...

Come ON LAZLO!! Take one for the team, they'll look so perfectly arched and groomed ! I agree with miss CCG I've only had my eyebrows threaded so Im kind of immune to the pain, but the upper lip that is worse than any body wax almost on par with epilating. Love how this conversation went from class 2 cephs to hair removal, God bless ADD ! 

[Lazlo]

oh my god i hadn't read the first few pages of this thread before, the complexity of all this with regards to ramus osteotomy etc. etc. is frightening. I thought I knew a fair bit about this but I feel clueless now.

[Tiny]

Updating this now that I have my surgical plan from Mommaerts

It was a very quick, and not very thorough consultation (all of 10 minutes) but I can't really complain too much because I only paid $100 for it (and that was to open a file as well).  The good thing though is that he identified all of the issues (deep bite, cross bite, posterior open bite, overbite, short ramus, weak chin) in about 10 seconds. 

The plan is
- decomp 1 year
- BSSO
- paste on the low mandible
- minor fat removal on one side of the jawline (I'm asymmetric)
- potential genio and removal of implant depending how it looks.

I am not sure how much it's going to cost me, because I'm getting it done in a public hospital and it's slightly subsidised by the government.  In any case it will be less than Europe.  Now I just have to hope that the cost of living doesn't get so utterly ridiculous that I have to leave before a year is up!

I will meet with the ortho soon to get braced up...looking forward to that - not!!! 

I am curious to see how my lip shape will change.  I think the bottom will get smaller (because at the moment it's quite significantly everted) and the top will get bigger (because my retroclined incisors are making it collapse inwards)

[dantheman]

hey ccg,

I was looking on his website for international patients but the link doesn't seem to work. Would you know if he does e-mail consultations? I have e-mailed his office but have no heard back. Awesome that you are moving forward with your treatment!

[Tiny]

hey ccg,

I was looking on his website for international patients but the link doesn't seem to work. Would you know if he does e-mail consultations? I have e-mailed his office but have no heard back. Awesome that you are moving forward with your treatment!

I think he does but his office seem really really bad at organising it

[Tiny]

Updating this old thread now that I have my basic plan from Prof Pelo.  This is based only on my pictures and cephs.  I really hope to meet him in person soon

He advised
- fixing the crossbite with orthodontics by "stripping the dental elements of the lower arch" - I think this means filing?  I will confirm this with him, as my entire lower jaw is off center not just my teeth
- upper (Le Fort 1) with some CCW and overall downgraft (posterior and anterior) of the maxilla - this is to lengthen the philtrum and midface and create more tooth show (I currently have very little and a curved, short philtrum)
- lower advancement with some CCW.  Did not specify what kind

Anyway, suffice to say that I am much happier with this plan than what I was suggested by Mommaerts. 

Am I the first person on this board to get recommended a maxillary downgraft?  It does make some sense to me - my philtrum is already very short and curved despite the retroclined incisors, so if they did ortho+CCW it could curl my lip out a ridiculous amount!!

[Gregor Samsa]

Is he going to do any HA grafts on you?

[Gregor Samsa]

Did you get a cost estimate? I seem to recall that stupidjaws said his bimax cost around 20k euros.

[Tiny]

Did you get a cost estimate? I seem to recall that stupidjaws said his bimax cost around 20k euros.

I didn't but I don't feel this surgery is something you can skimp on.  I will get the best I can afford.  20k euros is OK.  Unfortunately, taking at least a month off work after the surgery means I need to save a lot extra, because I'm self employed.

I really don't get why Paul Johnson is so cheap compared to others, given his reputation and experience....I mean he quoted me 8k GBP which is...12k euros.  Seems crazy.  I will consult him again when I am further down the line with ortho and if he gives me a great surgical plan then I'd definitely still go for it.

But I am noting that Prof Pelo straight away said 'bimax with CCW' whereas PJ said 'BSSO and maybe bimax if we can't advance enough'.  I might go to Italy next week and see him in person.