Author Topic: worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)  (Read 1349 times)

Camus

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worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)
« on: October 03, 2021, 01:44:56 PM »
I've been researching this for about a year now. The first orthodontist, maxillofacial, and plastic surgeon I've seen so far basically dismissed jaw surgery out of hand without looking at an xray. The second orthodontist acknowledged that I had a retrognathic mandible. After taking the scans she noted that, I tend to posture my jaw somewhat, so it is more like 3mm underbite rather than 1mm as other ortho believed.

I'm waiting to consult with a couple more surgeons, but there aren't really any others in the area. And it's really daunting to try to find a good surgeon that is not so conservative (i.e. unwilling to consider jaw surgery unless absolutely 100% medically necessary), and be straight about if jaw surgery is the best way to correct the aesthetic deficiencies. Thoughts?

https://imgur.com/a/7sxMmow
« Last Edit: October 03, 2021, 01:53:37 PM by Camus »

Post bimax

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Re: worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2021, 02:37:58 PM »
Obviously a jaw surgery candidate even if it were just for aesthetics. Probably a bimax with ccw rotation. Seek out a consultation with an aesthetically-minded surgeon (Gunson, wolford, relle, movahed, Alfaro; etc)

GJ

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Re: worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2021, 01:13:52 PM »
Agree with Post Bimax that you appear to be a candidate based on those images. Your nose is upturned and appears to have that "tether" look to it, so you do have to be concerned with the pig nose effect. Any reason your wisdom teeth haven't been removed? They are likely causing problems.

Looks like a CCW rotation case, and then you could lengthen the chin a bit vertically to even out the long philtrum. This would produce the best result, imo.

Millimeters are miles on the face.

kavan

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Re: worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2021, 05:20:42 PM »
You have an overly protrusive ANS (anterior nasal spine). It is part of the reason (but not all) of why your mandible looks more recessed than it actually is. Tell tale sign of that is the overly OBTUSE nose to lip angle along with how the upper lip is TETHERED to the base of the nose. Your max fax would need to know how to do a 'deprojection rhino' along with your surgery OR he/she would need to cut a 'V' shaped notch below your ANS (which usually requires capacity with pzeizo electric tools) in order to prevent the ANS going forward with maxillary advancement. This kind of overly protrusive ANS can limit maxillary advancement, especially so if the max fax is not conversant in rhino techniques or lacks the tools/skill set to cut a 'V' notch below it so it does not go forward with the maxillary advancement if you needed maxillary advancement as part of aligning both jaws.  You might want to look into getting a deprojection rhino by a good rhino guy before maxfax surgery.

Here is a link to a tutorial about deprojection rhino and why it's done when someone has a prominent ANS. http://www.facialsurgery.com/ClkoffTPgt3_2011_09_01bh.html
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Camus

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Re: worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2021, 10:46:58 AM »
You might want to look into getting a deprojection rhino by a good rhino guy before maxfax surgery.

Thanks, I actually was thinking about my nose as well, I have a consult scheduled. Does the rhino guy need to know I may get bimax surgery and alter plans accordingly, or are they relatively independent procedures in my case?

Could rhino + genioplasty give me a reasonable result? I'm still on the fence with regards to bimax (although, I do have mild sleep apnea that I believe to be related)


Any reason your wisdom teeth haven't been removed? They are likely causing problems.

Ah, I had 2 removed in Mexico when they were bothering me. In retrospect I don't know why I didn't get them all out.

« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 11:16:23 AM by Camus »

kavan

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Re: worth pursuing jaw surgery? (ceph)
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2021, 11:39:22 AM »
Thanks, I actually was thinking about my nose as well, I have a consult scheduled. Does the rhino guy need to know I may get bimax surgery and alter plans accordingly, or are they relatively independent procedures in my case?

Could rhino + genioplasty give me a reasonable result? I'm still on the fence with regards to bimax (although, I do have mild sleep apnea that I believe to be related)


Ah, I had 2 removed in Mexico when they were bothering me. In retrospect I don't know why I didn't get them all out.

Look/study the tutorial I provided so you are prepared to consult with a rhino guy about deprojection rhino. (I don't know what area you are in.). Bring your ceph along so he can look at the ANS. You can also broach topic of rhino experience capacity, prominent ANS with any maxfax you consult with.

Your angle measurements look to be those where you would aesthetically benefit from what the other posters told you which is CCW rotation (posterior downgrafting type). They are also such that your maxilla (the part of it that does not include the prominent ANS) is within the norm but closer to the lower side of the norm. Angle measures relative to the mandible DEVIATE from the norm which is indicator of clear cut RECESSION of the mandible. So, it's very likely that in YOUR case, in addition to the type of posterior downgrafting they do to assist mandibular advancement, it is very likely they would have to move your maxilla FORWARD to ALSO ASSIST with a good aesthetic mandibular advancement. BUT, BUT, BUT....the protrusive ANS could LIMIT the aesthetic benefit of the WHOLE bimax IF the surgeon was NOT in capacity to do the rhino technique of deprojection rhino along with the bimax surgery. Hence, you should either get the deprojection rhino BEFORE maxfax or find a maxfax who can do the deprojection rhino WITH a BIMAX surgery.

As to your question of could rhino and genio work: NO

Your angle measures  reveal your MANDIBLE is RECESSIVE. Also, with bimax the CHIN goes forward with the mandible forward displacement and with the docs who do the CCW posterior downgrafting, they often don't need to do a genio (or they just do a small one) because they can bring the mandible forward enough so the chin point is in the best place. A plastic surgeon (rhino docs) would probably want to put in a chin implant or do a genio. But for the most part they DONT do maxfax surgery.

That said, my advice is in favor of the BIMAX, either after a deprojection rhino or with a surgeon who could either do a deprojection rhino OR just cut a V notch under the ANS so that does not come forward with the rest of the maxilla. The situation is such that you would need to tell the rhino guy (a plastic surgeon) NOT to do anything to your chin. They will WANT TO. Just tell them you will later be getting bimax where the bimax surgery would bring your chin out along with the mandible advancement.
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