New here, looking for a good surgeon in Europe but it's a difficult decision

[BeachApron]

Hi all. 26 y/o male here looking for advice.

The reason I'm pursuing this is for an under/crossbite as well as sleep apnea, and I also have some TMJ stuff going on. I'm looking for a surgeon who is good both aesthetically and functionally.
I'm from The Netherlands, and I don't know if or how much it matters, but I'm not particularly Dutch looking (being half black), so I don't know if ethnicity has to be taken into account when doing this, I was warned once by someone notable that Dutch surgeons will operate using Dutch proportions but one would assume that surgeons operate based on one's individual facial proportions, not based on merely ethnicity. I've also spoken to Dr. Z via mail, and his plan was something that involved SARPE, chin wing, and maybe zygoma osteotomy and rhinoplasty. He has been mentioned here quite frequently, I just gotta see if traveling to another country would work for me as it would have to be insured (in The Netherlands, insurance would cover it all under usual circumstances). Someone else told me it's kind of a "meme" to travel to another country and said I'm better off just doing it closer to home, in The Netherlands, but I've also read that they have mostly conservative surgeons here and I really gotta find one who can tend to all the things I'm looking for, 3D scan and proper plans and all. My next appointments are with surgeons called Ghaeminia and M. Bronkhorst. As someone who considers almost all possibilities and viewpoints, figuring this out has been very difficult. When I find a surgeon who seems good, I then find comments that seem to suggest otherwise, or I see a possible insurance hassle. As for most of the ones I mentioned from The Netherlands, it's hard to find information about them, even though the two upcoming ones were recommended to consider by people I talked to online. I've considered Raffaini as well, but he won't do online consults and his consult fee is steep. Still want to go to Z and maybe R to see what the best course of action would be.

One prerequisite is that my insurance can cover it, and I'm told that as an EU citizen, I should be able to get it done in another country.
I'm from The Netherlands myself, and it's been tough to figure out who to go to. I've been to Nolte, I've heard of H.K.T. de Jonge and have an appointment with Marc Bronkhorst this year.

The expected movements, as per my most recent surgeon visit that is, would be 5mm for the upper jaw and some sort of slight rotation for the lower, and I also want to keep tabs on rhino to prevent the nose from widening and have a possible genio. So, somewhat moderate, as SARPE would likely tackle a part of the problem already. The sleep apnea should be helped by this procedure as well.

I hope I've come to the right place to get closer to finding the right choice for me, I'm looking for suggestions (have been for a while in several dfiferent places) and recommendations.

[GJ]

Personally, I think ethnicity should be taken into account.

I don't know any of those surgeons except Z and R, and I think R has a better reputation around here. Z had a good reputation, but I'm not sure if that's true anymore. Some info came in over the years that they're impossible to get in touch with and people mentioned some not so great results. But who knows, he might be the perfect choice for you. I'm not sure on any of those guys, but I'd probably focus on Raffini, but I'd consult with them all. You should go with your gut and who makes the most sense after talking to them in person, not what the forum says.

[BeachApron]

Personally, I think ethnicity should be taken into account.

I don't know any of those surgeons except Z and R, and I think R has a better reputation around here. Z had a good reputation, but I'm not sure if that's true anymore. Some info came in over the years that they're impossible to get in touch with and people mentioned some not so great results. But who knows, he might be the perfect choice for you. I'm not sure on any of those guys, but I'd probably focus on Raffini, but I'd consult with them all. You should go with your gut and who makes the most sense after talking to them in person, not what the forum says.

Thank you for your reply. I will consider going to Raffaini after all even though he requests that I go in person, which would require me to book a little trip to Italy. Is that usual? The consult costs also weren't cheap but he does seem like a good choice. I am just concerned about insurance, with a Dutch surgeon it would be insured but that doesn't seem so certain in this case, what can you say about that, especially if there are medical implications as well?

[GJ]

Thank you for your reply. I will consider going to Raffaini after all even though he requests that I go in person, which would require me to book a little trip to Italy. Is that usual? The consult costs also weren't cheap but he does seem like a good choice. I am just concerned about insurance, with a Dutch surgeon it would be insured but that doesn't seem so certain in this case, what can you say about that, especially if there are medical implications as well?

I have no idea regarding costs or insurance in Europe. Just ask Raffaini if he accepts your insurance, and then get that response in writing if it it's a yes. That's the best way to get an answer.